DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Niqab is wajib according to who and when?

**maysubers** · 07-23-2010, 07:56 AM

With all due respect, but you are wrong.

With all due respect, if you're agreeing that the hadith in Arabic makes no mention of faces then I am in fact right. If you believe the hadith is referring to faces, that's your opinion. But the translation is a bit off as 'faces' is simply not there.

Is it me or is the link provided by Brother MuhammadNur and what it states in there about Ibn Kathirs opinion being totally opposite to what Brother Joshimitsu posted in his post about the opinion of Ibn Kathir??

Taken from the link provided by MuhammadNur:

The hadith is cited to "prove" that the women obeyed Surah an-Nur ayah 31 by wearing niqab. But it does not prove this. Imam Qurtubi and Imam ibn Kathir have provided an explicit description of what the khimar is to cover. This is the forehead, hair, ears, neck, and upper chest. THEY DO NOT MENTION THE FACE. And neither does the hadith.

So what is the opinion of Ibn Kathir?

Sorry bro, I think I might have got a bit confused. Here's from his tafseer:

"(and not to show off their adornment except that which is apparent,) means, they should not show anything of their adornment to non-Mahram men except for whatever it is impossible to hide. Ibn Mas`ud said: "Such as clothes and outer garments,'' Meaning what the Arab women used to wear of the veil which covered their clothes and whatever showed from underneath the outer garment. There is no blame on her for this, because this is something that she cannot conceal. Similar to that is what appears of her lower garment and what she cannot conceal. Al-Hasan, Ibn Sirin, Abu Al-Jawza', Ibrahim An-Nakha`i and others also had the same view as Ibn Mas`ud."

The mentioning if Ibn Masud led me to believe that Ibn Kathir held the opinion that the face and hands should be covered. But in the next section of commentary he says:

"(and to draw their veils all over their Juyub) means that they should wear the outer garment in such a way as to cover their chests and ribs, so that they will be different from the women of the Jahiliyyah, who did not do that but would pass in front of men with their chests completely uncovered, and with their necks, forelocks, hair and earrings uncovered."

Here, no mention is made of covering the face.

Sorry again if I confused anyone. Perhaps someone with greater knowledge can confirm what the opinion of Ibn Kathir was on this issue.

07-23-2010, 07:56 AM	#40
maysubers Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 388 Senior Member	With all due respect, but you are wrong. With all due respect, if you're agreeing that the hadith in Arabic makes no mention of faces then I am in fact right. If you believe the hadith is referring to faces, that's your opinion. But the translation is a bit off as 'faces' is simply not there. Is it me or is the link provided by Brother MuhammadNur and what it states in there about Ibn Kathirs opinion being totally opposite to what Brother Joshimitsu posted in his post about the opinion of Ibn Kathir?? Taken from the link provided by MuhammadNur: The hadith is cited to "prove" that the women obeyed Surah an-Nur ayah 31 by wearing niqab. But it does not prove this. Imam Qurtubi and Imam ibn Kathir have provided an explicit description of what the khimar is to cover. This is the forehead, hair, ears, neck, and upper chest. THEY DO NOT MENTION THE FACE. And neither does the hadith. So what is the opinion of Ibn Kathir? Sorry bro, I think I might have got a bit confused. Here's from his tafseer: "(and not to show off their adornment except that which is apparent,) means, they should not show anything of their adornment to non-Mahram men except for whatever it is impossible to hide. Ibn Mas`ud said: "Such as clothes and outer garments,'' Meaning what the Arab women used to wear of the veil which covered their clothes and whatever showed from underneath the outer garment. There is no blame on her for this, because this is something that she cannot conceal. Similar to that is what appears of her lower garment and what she cannot conceal. Al-Hasan, Ibn Sirin, Abu Al-Jawza', Ibrahim An-Nakha`i and others also had the same view as Ibn Mas`ud." The mentioning if Ibn Masud led me to believe that Ibn Kathir held the opinion that the face and hands should be covered. But in the next section of commentary he says: "(and to draw their veils all over their Juyub) means that they should wear the outer garment in such a way as to cover their chests and ribs, so that they will be different from the women of the Jahiliyyah, who did not do that but would pass in front of men with their chests completely uncovered, and with their necks, forelocks, hair and earrings uncovered." Here, no mention is made of covering the face. Sorry again if I confused anyone. Perhaps someone with greater knowledge can confirm what the opinion of Ibn Kathir was on this issue.
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