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**Dreqsqse** · 04-23-2011, 09:22 PM

Dr. Ghali
"And the heaven (is also a sign). We have built it with (Our) Hands (i.e., Capability) and surely We are indeed extending (it) wide."

Quran 51:47

The word in question here is 'moosiAAoon', which means 'the ones who make things vast/expand' (it is a noun, not a verb). The verse does not specify that the universe is still expanding, only that Allah is the one who makes things vast/expand, including the 'heavens'. Only recently have some people such as Dr. Ghali translated 'moosiAAoon' as a verb in the present tense, meaning 'extending/expanding it'. This is incorrect, as can be seen by someone with knowledge of Arabic grammar, and as evidenced by the fact that this is a departure from the majority of previous translations.

Now, even if we suspend our disbelief, ignore all other translations, and assume that Dr. Ghali is correct, what is so miraculous about such a vague description? What 'heaven' is the Quran referring to? The word used is 'samaa', which also means 'sky'. What does 'god' mean when he speaks of how he 'built' the sky? Also, what is so grand about such a description? Anyone could look up at the sky and come to the conclusion, for whatever reason, that the 'heavens' are expanding. Add a few details and maybe then you have something worth bragging about.

Do you not see how all these 'miracles' are just vague descriptions, and are often simply invented by people who deliberately mistranslate the Quran to insert their own 'miracles' into the text? Now if God wanted to include clear scientific miracles, why didn't he include something concrete and completely unknowable at the time? Why didn't he say something like:

'verily we have created all things with energy equal to it's mass multiplied by the speed of light multiplied unto itself; and God is the creator of all things'

There, completely clear and not in the least bit vague; and had it been in the Quran, not one person would be able to refute the fact that this is completely correct and completely unknowable at the time.

Salam..

What he is saying about that anyone can look at the sky and see how it is expanding is complete Bull****. How can you tell that the universe is expanding by simply looking at the sky? The only way to know that it is expanding is by using a telescope that can actually look into the deepness of space, to witness 'RedShift', which this guy has obviously never heard of. Redshift and the big bang are both mentioned in the same verse, along with another scientific statement (everything is created from water): '"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?'' [21:30].

Now to his other point about 'Musioon' being a noun not a verb. The word 'Musioon/Musaaioon' does mean 'the ones that are expanding'; it is simple logic to be able to understand that this points to the idea of the universe expanding, as the word is used in verses which mention the 'sky' or 'heavens' or 'universe'. Its like me saying 'This robot, of it i am the creator'; it is obvious what the meaning of that is; that i am the one that created the robot.

Also, just by the fact that Allah calls himself 'the ones that expand it' in a verse about the skies is a miracle in itself. Because by using 'expand' it already implies that that whatever He is talking about expands, and that He is just giving the reason as to why it does expand. So by him saying that it is simple to conclude by any normal person that the sky is ever-expanding means that everyone in history is an idiot, even the greatest European scientists, who still could not provide evidence that the universe is expanding. His points only sound clever because of the confidence he is using.

I had similar experiences with an Atheist trying to disprove the Quran, however I found that he was misusing and misinterpreting verses of the Quran as he likes. I also found him translating everything literally, and thus losing the meaning to disprove scientific miracles of the Quran. Remember hat Allah says in the Quran something to the lines of Allah allows those who want to seek knowledge to find it, but those who are ignorant and choose to be, then Allah keeps them away from Islam. I dont know the exact aya but im sure if you searched you would find it

.

Inshallah when i get more time i will read the other points that he made, but i just read that bit. Hope it helped, SALAAM ALEYKUM and never lose faith in the miracles and science of the QURAN. People only start trying to disprove it because they simply dont want to believe in a God, because it means too much of their lifestyle to lose.

'We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?
Unquestionably, they are in doubt about the meeting with their Lord. Unquestionably He is, of all things, encompassing.' [41:53-54].

p.s: this website helps when debating about science.. i didnt use it now, but maybe it answers some of the other points i have not addresed : try checking out answering-christianity.com ..

04-23-2011, 09:22 PM	#18
Dreqsqse Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 389 Senior Member	Dr. Ghali "And the heaven (is also a sign). We have built it with (Our) Hands (i.e., Capability) and surely We are indeed extending (it) wide." Quran 51:47 The word in question here is 'moosiAAoon', which means 'the ones who make things vast/expand' (it is a noun, not a verb). The verse does not specify that the universe is still expanding, only that Allah is the one who makes things vast/expand, including the 'heavens'. Only recently have some people such as Dr. Ghali translated 'moosiAAoon' as a verb in the present tense, meaning 'extending/expanding it'. This is incorrect, as can be seen by someone with knowledge of Arabic grammar, and as evidenced by the fact that this is a departure from the majority of previous translations. Now, even if we suspend our disbelief, ignore all other translations, and assume that Dr. Ghali is correct, what is so miraculous about such a vague description? What 'heaven' is the Quran referring to? The word used is 'samaa', which also means 'sky'. What does 'god' mean when he speaks of how he 'built' the sky? Also, what is so grand about such a description? Anyone could look up at the sky and come to the conclusion, for whatever reason, that the 'heavens' are expanding. Add a few details and maybe then you have something worth bragging about. Do you not see how all these 'miracles' are just vague descriptions, and are often simply invented by people who deliberately mistranslate the Quran to insert their own 'miracles' into the text? Now if God wanted to include clear scientific miracles, why didn't he include something concrete and completely unknowable at the time? Why didn't he say something like: 'verily we have created all things with energy equal to it's mass multiplied by the speed of light multiplied unto itself; and God is the creator of all things' There, completely clear and not in the least bit vague; and had it been in the Quran, not one person would be able to refute the fact that this is completely correct and completely unknowable at the time. Salam.. What he is saying about that anyone can look at the sky and see how it is expanding is complete Bull***. How can you tell that the universe is expanding by simply looking at the sky? The only way to know that it is expanding is by using a telescope that can actually look into the deepness of space, to witness 'RedShift', which this guy has obviously never heard of. Redshift and the big bang are both mentioned in the same verse, along with another scientific statement (everything is created from water): '"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?'' [21:30]. Now to his other point about 'Musioon' being a noun not a verb. The word 'Musioon/Musaaioon' does mean 'the ones that are expanding'; it is simple logic to be able to understand that this points to the idea of the universe expanding, as the word is used in verses which mention the 'sky' or 'heavens' or 'universe'. Its like me saying 'This robot, of it i am the creator'; it is obvious what the meaning of that is; that i am the one that created the robot. Also, just by the fact that Allah calls himself 'the ones that expand it' in a verse about the skies is a miracle in itself. Because by using 'expand' it already implies that that whatever He is talking about expands, and that He is just giving the reason as to why it does expand. So by him saying that it is simple to conclude by any normal person that the sky is ever-expanding means that everyone in history is an idiot, even the greatest European scientists, who still could not provide evidence that the universe is expanding. His points only sound clever because of the confidence he is using. I had similar experiences with an Atheist trying to disprove the Quran, however I found that he was misusing and misinterpreting verses of the Quran as he likes. I also found him translating everything literally, and thus losing the meaning to disprove scientific miracles of the Quran. Remember hat Allah says in the Quran something to the lines of Allah allows those who want to seek knowledge to find it, but those who are ignorant and choose to be, then Allah keeps them away from Islam*. I dont know the exact aya but im sure if you searched you would find it . Inshallah when i get more time i will read the other points that he made, but i just read that bit. Hope it helped, SALAAM ALEYKUM and never lose faith in the miracles and science of the QURAN. People only start trying to disprove it because they simply dont want to believe in a God, because it means too much of their lifestyle to lose. 'We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness? Unquestionably, they are in doubt about the meeting with their Lord. Unquestionably He is, of all things, encompassing.' [41:53-54]. p.s: this website helps when debating about science.. i didnt use it now, but maybe it answers some of the other points i have not addresed : try checking out answering-christianity.com ..
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