[Gmvkgkmn]

As I said, it's the intent behind 'dhahir al-ma'na' which is the problem. Please define 'dhahir' according to the salafi scholars.

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I have already discussed this http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...uot#post583681 , but you moved from that thread and asked the same question in this thread, i wonder why ? where is abosafar ?

Abul_hussain tell us the meaning of istawa and yadd for which you say the meaning is known.

it is very simple to understand, just like Molwi Faraz Rabbani / GF Haddad / Ahbash-Habashis translated other Attributes of Allah. If Yadd could mean 1000 things then so could the other attributes like Samee / Baseer etc. etc... but why do they translate the 7 affirmative attributes to the DHAHIR = LITERAL APPARENT meanings ?? But you say when it comes to YADD. STOP, don't do what GF Haddad and Faraz Rabbani are doing ? please explain and clarify !
if translating it is not giving the meaning to the apparent/literal then what it is ?

See how Molwi Faraz Rabbani translated the Attributes of Allah here http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...ID=114&CATE=24
"Allah has seven affirmative attributes, which you mentioned: Knowledge, Will, Power, Life, Hearing, Seeing, and Speech. These have seven attributes that relate to them, which are Allah's being Knowing, Willing, Powerful, Living, Hearing, Seeing, and Speaking."

So, what is wrong with translating Yadd as Hand ?? if you can translate Samee to mean Hearing and Baseer to mean seeing ?? you can search for articles of faraz rabbani or gf haddad or ahbash were they have translated yadd = hand .

is it really that hard to understand ? Islam came for everyone, for a Jaahil bedouin in the desert to the most educated ones in the cities. You don't need to learn all those terms like limb/organ/blood/flesh/bones/nail/tissues/fibers/veins/arteries/atoms/protons/neutrons/electrons/bodies/jism/ and its functions or workings etc etc.. to understand simple issues.

From belief in Allah is to have faith in those of His Beautiful names and Lofty Attributes that occur in His Great Book Quran and that have been affirmed by His Last Messenger -without tahreef (distorting the wording or the meaning), tateel (divesting or denying the Attributes), takyeef (asking how) or tamtheel (resembling Allah to any of His creation). Rather,it is obligatory to leave them as they came, without takyeef (asking how) or tamtheel (resembling Allah to any of His creation). Along with this, it is also obligatory to have faith in the meaning that Allah has been described with, in a way which befits Him: without resembling Him to His creation in any of His attributes.
Allah says:"There is nothing like unto Him,and He is the All-Hearing,the All-seeing" 42:11
Allaah also says:"And do not put forward any similitudes for Allah. Indeed,Allah knows and you do not know" 16:74

When Names of Allah have been translated and Sifat ( attributes ) translated by learned Ashari or Maturidi scholars or students of knowledge ( like GF Haddad, Faraz Rabbani , Ahbash AICP etc etc. ) what is the issue with other Sifat like Yadd or Ayn etc etc ?

We understand the sifat and names of Allah are tawqifiyyah ( see the words of Khatib al-Baghdadi and others ) , later we shall see what Tabari, Ibn Furak, few maturidi scholars, Shabbir Ahmad Uthmani, Ashraf Ali Thanawi, Rasheed Gongohi etc etc have wrote on Attributes of Allah and tafwid...i don't know why there are so many heated debates and discussions on this issue, when the matter is so simple and easy to grasp. If a scholar from Ahlus Sunnah has a different opinion on few issues, that doesn't mean he should be ex-communicated or expelled. Rather, there are some very just scholars, who said this is the Madhhab of Salaf however this is my opinion (which is different ) ... this is the right way.

Shaykh Riyad al-Haqq

All in agreement with Madhhab of Salaf just like Hafidh Abu Sulayman al-Khattabi (d. 386 AH) said

أَخْبَرَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ الْحَارِثِ الْفَقِيهُ، أنا أَبُو مُحَمَّدِ بْنُ حَيَّانَ أَبُو الشَّيْخِ الْأَصْبَهَانِيُّ، قَالَ: وَفِيمَا أَجَازَنِي جَدِّي يَعْنِي مَحْمُودَ بْنَ الْفَرَحِ قَالَ: قَالَ إِسْحَاقُ بْنُ [ص:377] رَاهَوَيْهِ: سَأَلَنِي ابْنُ طَاهِرٍ عَنْ حَدِيثِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ـ يَعْنِي فِي النُّزُولِ ـ فَقُلْتُ لَهُ: النُّزُولُ بِلَا كَيْفٍ. قَالَ أَبُو سُلَيْمَانَ الْخَطَّابِيُّ: هَذَا الْحَدِيثُ وَمَا أَشْبَهَهُ مِنَ الْأَحَادِيثِ فِي الصِّفَاتِ كَانَ مَذْهَبُ السَّلَفِ فِيهَا الْإِيمَانَ بِهَا، وَإِجْرَاءَهَا عَلَى ظَاهِرِهَا وَنَفْيَ الْكَيْفِيَّةِ عَنْهَا. وَذَكَرَ الْحِكَايَةَ الَّتِي
[Hafidh Bayhaqi says] Abu Sulayman al-Khattabi (d. 386 AH) said: “As for this hadith and whatever resembles it from the hadith of Allah’s attributes, the madhab of the Salaf in regards to them was to believe in them, and pass them on their Dhahir (literal/apparent) meaning and negate the kayfiyyah (howness) from it.” and he mentioned that story. --- mentioned by Bayhaqi in his book Asma wa Sifat

If anyone thinks what i wrote is not the madhhab of Salaf Salih then please feel free to point out for which i will be thankful.

so what maneatinglizard said > is very true, this topic never gets responded why the 7 affirmative attributes are translated to mean the dhahir haqeeqi and when it comes to yadd, STOP ! is there any answer to this ?