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**TubOppomo** · 10-03-2010, 06:23 AM

wasalaam

well to get straight to the point ITS HARAAM TO LIVE IN NON MUSLIM LANDS AND THE PROPHET (SAW) SPOKE HARSHLY AGAISNT THOSE WHO DID. nothing to discuss. whether scholars in the west are going to say this openly or not is there choice. make dua i get a job abroad iv had enough of here. just got caught in the rain

This issue cant be so cut and dry - if it were - more Ulema would be speaking out about it, now its understandable that some ulema may not speak on the subject, but there would still be a large sector of Ulema who do not fear the west who would say so.

There are so many factors that come into play today -
1. converts in non muslim lands - Do they have to migrate, or can they stay and establish dar islam?

2. the lack of a "Islamic" nation on earth - Syria is ran by kafirs, but they allow sunni Muslims freedoms to practice, just as the Us and canada and venezuala and SA - Is Saudi "Islamic" or is it just populated by Muslims? Is Turkey an okay place to live - or is hijrah wajib there too?

3. the lack of central Islamic authority and ummah cohesion - Where is the dar islam we are supposed to flock too? Whose army do we join to establish and spread dar islam?

4. Historical factors - What did the Sahabah (RA) do? were they disobeying rasoolullah (SAW) when they weant to persia and Indonesia nad the Hind while not on military campaigns?

5. Education - What if a Muslim wants to receive a better education, so they can bring something of bennefit to the Ummah? can he go to the University of Toronto? or must he stay in an impoverished land populated by Muslims?

I dont see any of the hardliner Hijrahis addressing any of these questions - they just say "its wajib - leave - no matter what"

What about establishing Muslim villages in these countries? In this new geo-political climate, Muslims have a secret advantage - In the past, the Kafirs recognized Islams predisposition to spraeding and without war - In Spain, after 1492, the Spanish saw the Islamic influence as a threat and banned Arabic and arabic atire - they knew that when Muslims settle in an area and are left unmolested, we change our enviroment through our actions and our procreation. In modern times, the west has abandoned the tactic of openly outlawing Islam, they have adopted a new system of tollerance, which can be used to the Muslims advantage - We can build new Muslim lands, without war, like Indonesia was built - we can come together, buy land, start bussinesses, engage in politics, elect Muslims to positions of power, and slowly establish Dar islam inside dar kuffar - by using the system they invented, the system they cling too.

10-03-2010, 06:23 AM	#32
TubOppomo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 434 Senior Member	wasalaam well to get straight to the point ITS HARAAM TO LIVE IN NON MUSLIM LANDS AND THE PROPHET (SAW) SPOKE HARSHLY AGAISNT THOSE WHO DID. nothing to discuss. whether scholars in the west are going to say this openly or not is there choice. make dua i get a job abroad iv had enough of here. just got caught in the rain This issue cant be so cut and dry - if it were - more Ulema would be speaking out about it, now its understandable that some ulema may not speak on the subject, but there would still be a large sector of Ulema who do not fear the west who would say so. There are so many factors that come into play today - 1. converts in non muslim lands - Do they have to migrate, or can they stay and establish dar islam? 2. the lack of a "Islamic" nation on earth - Syria is ran by kafirs, but they allow sunni Muslims freedoms to practice, just as the Us and canada and venezuala and SA - Is Saudi "Islamic" or is it just populated by Muslims? Is Turkey an okay place to live - or is hijrah wajib there too? 3. the lack of central Islamic authority and ummah cohesion - Where is the dar islam we are supposed to flock too? Whose army do we join to establish and spread dar islam? 4. Historical factors - What did the Sahabah (RA) do? were they disobeying rasoolullah (SAW) when they weant to persia and Indonesia nad the Hind while not on military campaigns? 5. Education - What if a Muslim wants to receive a better education, so they can bring something of bennefit to the Ummah? can he go to the University of Toronto? or must he stay in an impoverished land populated by Muslims? I dont see any of the hardliner Hijrahis addressing any of these questions - they just say "its wajib - leave - no matter what" What about establishing Muslim villages in these countries? In this new geo-political climate, Muslims have a secret advantage - In the past, the Kafirs recognized Islams predisposition to spraeding and without war - In Spain, after 1492, the Spanish saw the Islamic influence as a threat and banned Arabic and arabic atire - they knew that when Muslims settle in an area and are left unmolested, we change our enviroment through our actions and our procreation. In modern times, the west has abandoned the tactic of openly outlawing Islam, they have adopted a new system of tollerance, which can be used to the Muslims advantage - We can build new Muslim lands, without war, like Indonesia was built - we can come together, buy land, start bussinesses, engage in politics, elect Muslims to positions of power, and slowly establish Dar islam inside dar kuffar - by using the system they invented, the system they cling too.
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