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**Alex** · 09-09-2007, 08:27 PM

I'm interested in learning a sword fighting style that is closer to real sword fighting. In other words, something that's fast pace and closest to real sword fighting. It seems that there are a lot of practices out there like Iaido, which only practices the "Art" aspect of swords... like how to draw the sword, how to hold the sword, and how to move around with the sword..... and there's kenjutsu, which you're basically practicing slicing with another partner in slow motion? (am i right?)

and kendo seems to be the fast pace sport out of all of these.... and the closest one to a real sword fight? or are there any other practices out there that i am not aware of?

Lastly, i have watched a few kendo matches on youtube, but it seems like 99% of the time, all the people do is rush in and try to smack the other person's head from the top.... the attacks almost always come from a top down motion... unlike a real sword fight in which you can slice another person from the belly area... and also, it seems like that most of the time people strikes twice or only strike a very limited times before both the kendo practitioner stop by either stepping back or have their shinai touching each other, then push off each other and start over.... it always appear as if the game is played by. striking twice, then take a break, then striking twice again....

maybe someone can clarify this to me, or suggest a style that is closer to real sword fighting?

Hi Silo-san!

Welcome to the forum!

First, I know you aren't saying you want to actually use a real sword to spar with.

However, you say you want to get as close to real sword fighting as possible. Would you like to see what happens when a real sword is used by a real Samurai on a person? Please see here: WARNING: Gruesome photos in link.

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20604

The link holds actual photos of what Samurai did to some foreigners in the mid 1800's, along with a written description of what happened and why. It's not pretty.

So, please rethink your idea on wanting to fight like the Samurai did. Swords were banned in 1876 and Samurai could no longer carry a sword, and dueling was illegal. So, to romanticise it, is foolish.

Swords kill. Period. Nowadays, we practice the sword arts to help develope our character in and outside the dojo. This is true in Japan, too.

So, all sword arts are good to learn. And, iaido and kenjutsu are the real thing literally, as kendo is. You just don't get to spar in iaido and kenjutsu. Those arts are at least 400 years old, give or take, depending on the Ryu(style). Kendo is roughly 150 years old, and is fairly recent, as a result. It came about from kenjutsu.

I think you've been given some really good descriptions on the three arts so far, but I have some other things to add.

Kendo really is beautiful. Once you start learning it, over time, you would begin to understand it and see the beauty of the art. Right now, you don't have a clue what you are looking at because you haven't had any kendo training yet, so you can't see why each kenshi is doing what they do. For example, they aren't taking a break when they stop. They are waiting to attack and looking for openings.

Well, kendo has it's roots in kenjutsu. That cut to the head you see, comes from kenjutsu. That would cut a person open from top to bottom because in kenjutsu/Iaido, you cut through to just above the ground. We are taught this concept in our kendo kata. In shinai(bamboo sword) kendo, we stop the cut once we strike the head, so we don't hurt our opponent, because injuring them is not the point of doing kendo. The same is said for the doh, kote and tsuki cuts. All come from the koryu sword arts.

Why Men(Cut to head) is done the most? That's an interesting question. That's possibly because people leave their men open more often than other targets, so a person will attack the men if it's open. But, that's just a guess. I'm still only a beginner myself, so don't count it as a definitive answer. (Looking for corrections, because now I'm interested if I'm thinking right. Please do!)

Oh. Kendo kata is koryu(old school) kata done with a partner. We use bokuto(wooden sword resembling a katana) and do not wear armour. We also do not hit each other, since attacking with a bokuto can result in serious injury or death. There are 10 kata: 7 long sword kata and 3 short sword defending/attacking (Not sure which. Anyone?) against the long sword kata. Each of these kata come from a different koryu kenjutsu ryu. I don't remember off-hand which Ryu they come from. I apologise for that.

We have to know these kata in addition to our shinai kendo waza(techniques).

I think you should give kendo a chance. It's the closest thing you will get to dueling, so to speak. But, please remember, we don't duel anymore. Those days are long gone.

Kendo is a lot of fun, if you can tolerate the endless repetition of waza just to learn something right. You won't suddenly just get to spar right away. It takes a lot of patience and hard work to earn the right to wear bogu(armour). Typically, it takes 3-6 months of work to develope decent kihon(basics) to be able to safely spar with someone. Sparring is called Ji-geiko. You would need to have good footwork, good tenouchi(hold the shinai properly and strike without clubbing someone.) good kihon and a good attitude to earn your bogu.

So, you see, there is a lot involved in learning kendo. It takes a very long time, even a lifetime, to become very good. Beginners learn waza slow first so they will develop good technique. If you try to be fast right away, you will never develop good skills. So, there is loads to work on. Kendo is for life. You can study it into the 80's and even 90's.

I highly suggest you try it at least, if there is a dojo within 2-3 hours or less, away. Good, legit dojo are not common, so please don't expect one to be in your backyard. You take what you can get.

Oh... I guess I'm biased. I forgot to mention about iaido and kenjutsu! Both of those arts should be given a chance if they are in your state as well, so you can choose what interests you best. Please be aware that legitimate iaido is rare and legitimate kenjutsu is even more rare. So, you may not get to even try those.

So, if you are interested, please give your state and town that you are in and we can see what is in your state.

I hope this helps a bit!

Oh, and sorry everyone for such a long post! *bow*

Kaoru

09-09-2007, 08:27 PM	#19
Alex Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 430 Senior Member	I'm interested in learning a sword fighting style that is closer to real sword fighting. In other words, something that's fast pace and closest to real sword fighting. It seems that there are a lot of practices out there like Iaido, which only practices the "Art" aspect of swords... like how to draw the sword, how to hold the sword, and how to move around with the sword..... and there's kenjutsu, which you're basically practicing slicing with another partner in slow motion? (am i right?) and kendo seems to be the fast pace sport out of all of these.... and the closest one to a real sword fight? or are there any other practices out there that i am not aware of? Lastly, i have watched a few kendo matches on youtube, but it seems like 99% of the time, all the people do is rush in and try to smack the other person's head from the top.... the attacks almost always come from a top down motion... unlike a real sword fight in which you can slice another person from the belly area... and also, it seems like that most of the time people strikes twice or only strike a very limited times before both the kendo practitioner stop by either stepping back or have their shinai touching each other, then push off each other and start over.... it always appear as if the game is played by. striking twice, then take a break, then striking twice again.... maybe someone can clarify this to me, or suggest a style that is closer to real sword fighting? Hi Silo-san! Welcome to the forum! First, I know you aren't saying you want to actually use a real sword to spar with. However, you say you want to get as close to real sword fighting as possible. Would you like to see what happens when a real sword is used by a real Samurai on a person? Please see here: WARNING: Gruesome photos in link. http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20604 The link holds actual photos of what Samurai did to some foreigners in the mid 1800's, along with a written description of what happened and why. It's not pretty. So, please rethink your idea on wanting to fight like the Samurai did. Swords were banned in 1876 and Samurai could no longer carry a sword, and dueling was illegal. So, to romanticise it, is foolish. Swords kill. Period. Nowadays, we practice the sword arts to help develope our character in and outside the dojo. This is true in Japan, too. So, all sword arts are good to learn. And, iaido and kenjutsu are the real thing literally, as kendo is. You just don't get to spar in iaido and kenjutsu. Those arts are at least 400 years old, give or take, depending on the Ryu(style). Kendo is roughly 150 years old, and is fairly recent, as a result. It came about from kenjutsu. I think you've been given some really good descriptions on the three arts so far, but I have some other things to add. Kendo really is beautiful. Once you start learning it, over time, you would begin to understand it and see the beauty of the art. Right now, you don't have a clue what you are looking at because you haven't had any kendo training yet, so you can't see why each kenshi is doing what they do. For example, they aren't taking a break when they stop. They are waiting to attack and looking for openings. Well, kendo has it's roots in kenjutsu. That cut to the head you see, comes from kenjutsu. That would cut a person open from top to bottom because in kenjutsu/Iaido, you cut through to just above the ground. We are taught this concept in our kendo kata. In shinai(bamboo sword) kendo, we stop the cut once we strike the head, so we don't hurt our opponent, because injuring them is not the point of doing kendo. The same is said for the doh, kote and tsuki cuts. All come from the koryu sword arts. Why Men(Cut to head) is done the most? That's an interesting question. That's possibly because people leave their men open more often than other targets, so a person will attack the men if it's open. But, that's just a guess. I'm still only a beginner myself, so don't count it as a definitive answer. (Looking for corrections, because now I'm interested if I'm thinking right. Please do!) Oh. Kendo kata is koryu(old school) kata done with a partner. We use bokuto(wooden sword resembling a katana) and do not wear armour. We also do not hit each other, since attacking with a bokuto can result in serious injury or death. There are 10 kata: 7 long sword kata and 3 short sword defending/attacking (Not sure which. Anyone?) against the long sword kata. Each of these kata come from a different koryu kenjutsu ryu. I don't remember off-hand which Ryu they come from. I apologise for that. We have to know these kata in addition to our shinai kendo waza(techniques). I think you should give kendo a chance. It's the closest thing you will get to dueling, so to speak. But, please remember, we don't duel anymore. Those days are long gone. Kendo is a lot of fun, if you can tolerate the endless repetition of waza just to learn something right. You won't suddenly just get to spar right away. It takes a lot of patience and hard work to earn the right to wear bogu(armour). Typically, it takes 3-6 months of work to develope decent kihon(basics) to be able to safely spar with someone. Sparring is called Ji-geiko. You would need to have good footwork, good tenouchi(hold the shinai properly and strike without clubbing someone.) good kihon and a good attitude to earn your bogu. So, you see, there is a lot involved in learning kendo. It takes a very long time, even a lifetime, to become very good. Beginners learn waza slow first so they will develop good technique. If you try to be fast right away, you will never develop good skills. So, there is loads to work on. Kendo is for life. You can study it into the 80's and even 90's. I highly suggest you try it at least, if there is a dojo within 2-3 hours or less, away. Good, legit dojo are not common, so please don't expect one to be in your backyard. You take what you can get. Oh... I guess I'm biased. I forgot to mention about iaido and kenjutsu! Both of those arts should be given a chance if they are in your state as well, so you can choose what interests you best. Please be aware that legitimate iaido is rare and legitimate kenjutsu is even more rare. So, you may not get to even try those. So, if you are interested, please give your state and town that you are in and we can see what is in your state. I hope this helps a bit! Oh, and sorry everyone for such a long post! bow Kaoru
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