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**9mm_fan** · 07-26-2007, 02:38 PM

First, Sats isn't attacking anyone. We are brothers in many areas of thought and I would very much like to pay him a visit at this mythical pub someday...

Ah, I see your logic. Because someone has written something on Wikipedia then it must be true.

Come now, by now you should know me better than that. This is just a handy example of a well-worded and widely accepted definition of theory. Today, it is all too common to use "theory" when what is actually meant is "conjecture" or "belief". If people are going to challenge scientific theory, then they have to do it on a level playing field, which means using the same definitions. If you're coming to play, you are required to play on my field, with my ball. Redefining what is and is not theory to suit the argument is a non-starter.

Sorry Perry, this does not hold water. A Theory is something that can be tested but how it is tested i s not defined. Why must it be 'supported by objective, measurable evidence'? just because some person quoted by Wiki said so?

Please explain the difference between 'theories' and 'beliefs' in your view. I am genuinely interested.

Easily. A theory is a description of the way something works, supported by objective evidence that can be measured and verified. A belief is a construct of human emotion in which it is permissible to exclude contradictory evidence. Science doesn't let you do that. Science and religion are two very different things, and not necessarily mutually exclusive.

I am also intrigued by your tendentious comment "everyone (at least here in the US) has the right...blah blah" are you implying that only people in the US have the right to believe anything? Curious.

Oh no, not at all. Sorry if it read like so much of that "America is bestest" crap. I mean that in some places not everyone is free to express their beliefs openly. All are welcome to do so, but please do not confuse religious belief and the scientific method. Please do not try to use the offices of government to indoctrinate my children, either.

As it turns out, in science (and like Nobel, for this bit of the argument I am prepared to exclude Mathematicians) there is really very little that can be expressed as "fact" - only well-supported theory and hypotheses.

07-26-2007, 02:38 PM	#21
9mm_fan Join Date May 2007 Age 54 Posts 5,191 Senior Member	First, Sats isn't attacking anyone. We are brothers in many areas of thought and I would very much like to pay him a visit at this mythical pub someday... Ah, I see your logic. Because someone has written something on Wikipedia then it must be true. Come now, by now you should know me better than that. This is just a handy example of a well-worded and widely accepted definition of theory. Today, it is all too common to use "theory" when what is actually meant is "conjecture" or "belief". If people are going to challenge scientific theory, then they have to do it on a level playing field, which means using the same definitions. If you're coming to play, you are required to play on my field, with my ball. Redefining what is and is not theory to suit the argument is a non-starter. Sorry Perry, this does not hold water. A Theory is something that can be tested but how it is tested i s not defined. Why must it be 'supported by objective, measurable evidence'? just because some person quoted by Wiki said so? Please explain the difference between 'theories' and 'beliefs' in your view. I am genuinely interested. Easily. A theory is a description of the way something works, supported by objective evidence that can be measured and verified. A belief is a construct of human emotion in which it is permissible to exclude contradictory evidence. Science doesn't let you do that. Science and religion are two very different things, and not necessarily mutually exclusive. I am also intrigued by your tendentious comment "everyone (at least here in the US) has the right...blah blah" are you implying that only people in the US have the right to believe anything? Curious. Oh no, not at all. Sorry if it read like so much of that "America is bestest" crap. I mean that in some places not everyone is free to express their beliefs openly. All are welcome to do so, but please do not confuse religious belief and the scientific method. Please do not try to use the offices of government to indoctrinate my children, either. As it turns out, in science (and like Nobel, for this bit of the argument I am prepared to exclude Mathematicians) there is really very little that can be expressed as "fact" - only well-supported theory and hypotheses.
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