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**Roker** · 02-12-2011, 03:06 AM

Takuan Soho perhaps (although he didn't practise himself from what I can gather)? There are quite a few Zen 'masters' who practise Iai as part of their discipline (I'll look it up tonight in Drager's book) and the language/jargon of Kendo/Iai is very Zen-laden so this would suggest these arts are 'Zen arts'

Okay, absent Draeger's reference (you have to realize that some of his conclusions have been supplanted by more broadly informed ones), can you give some examples of jargon which is specifically zen?

For iaido to be a "zen" pursuit, it must be infused with a zen-ness that significantly exceeds the background radiation level of zen in Japanese society. That some "Zen 'masters'" practice iaido is not proof that iaido is zen — you know that! It's like saying that because some elite golf stars engage in adultery that adultery is a necessary part of being a golf elite.

Some ryuha may have specific traditions or teachings related to some variety of Buddhist thought, but one can't look at practices in Western dojo and decide whether an art is "zen" or not based on what we silly non-Japanese are doing. There's oftentimes some very confused, misunderstood, overly-emphasized culture being passed on by folks who just haven't spent any time in Japan. (Not that I have, but at least I'm surrounded by folks who have.)

-Beth

02-12-2011, 03:06 AM	#14
Roker Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 497 Senior Member	Takuan Soho perhaps (although he didn't practise himself from what I can gather)? There are quite a few Zen 'masters' who practise Iai as part of their discipline (I'll look it up tonight in Drager's book) and the language/jargon of Kendo/Iai is very Zen-laden so this would suggest these arts are 'Zen arts' Okay, absent Draeger's reference (you have to realize that some of his conclusions have been supplanted by more broadly informed ones), can you give some examples of jargon which is specifically zen? For iaido to be a "zen" pursuit, it must be infused with a zen-ness that significantly exceeds the background radiation level of zen in Japanese society. That some "Zen 'masters'" practice iaido is not proof that iaido is zen — you know that! It's like saying that because some elite golf stars engage in adultery that adultery is a necessary part of being a golf elite. Some ryuha may have specific traditions or teachings related to some variety of Buddhist thought, but one can't look at practices in Western dojo and decide whether an art is "zen" or not based on what we silly non-Japanese are doing. There's oftentimes some very confused, misunderstood, overly-emphasized culture being passed on by folks who just haven't spent any time in Japan. (Not that I have, but at least I'm surrounded by folks who have.) -Beth
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