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**retrahdggd** · 09-01-2012, 12:47 PM

I tend to agree, but I must partly contest this:
In my opinion (as I have stated a few times), while it is true that the bulk of the R1b was brought to Europe with the Indo-European migrations of the Eneolithic/Bronze Age, I think that there was most probably some R1b (without the L11 mutation) in Neolithic Southeast Europe brought about by widely attested (archaeologically) migrations to what is now the Bulgarian Black Sea Coast from northern Anatolia. This, in my opinion, is supported by the frequency of R1b-M269 (xL11) in SE Europe:
Busby_R1b%28xL11%29.jpg

Agreed it's a possibility, but I would see even older subclades in the Neolithic (L23 and upstream). The L11* in Romania and Bulgaria matches the area of the first Indo-European incursions into the Balkans circa 4000-3500 BCE. It may be a leftover from that period rather than from the Neolithic.

09-01-2012, 12:47 PM	#21
retrahdggd Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 419 Senior Member	I tend to agree, but I must partly contest this: In my opinion (as I have stated a few times), while it is true that the bulk of the R1b was brought to Europe with the Indo-European migrations of the Eneolithic/Bronze Age, I think that there was most probably some R1b (without the L11 mutation) in Neolithic Southeast Europe brought about by widely attested (archaeologically) migrations to what is now the Bulgarian Black Sea Coast from northern Anatolia. This, in my opinion, is supported by the frequency of R1b-M269 (xL11) in SE Europe: Busby_R1b%28xL11%29.jpg Agreed it's a possibility, but I would see even older subclades in the Neolithic (L23 and upstream). The L11* in Romania and Bulgaria matches the area of the first Indo-European incursions into the Balkans circa 4000-3500 BCE. It may be a leftover from that period rather than from the Neolithic.
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