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**luffyplayaz** · 09-01-2012, 12:48 PM

I tend to agree with you rather than Dienekes on most things, Maciamo, and you're definitely winning the prediction contest if anybody is keeping score. Still, it's worth taking any individual's speculation with a grain of salt, even someone with as much data in front of him as Dienekes, or you, or Taranis, or anybody. Of course, even if we are to relegate Dienekes' usefulness to a source aggregator, he's nonetheless a very good source aggregator.

Let me say this, any model that anybody here or elsewhere makes is only as good as the data that we have. Everybody of us makes mistakes from time to time (I make and made quite a number of mistakes, I know that

). The part where things make a difference is a) how good our hunch was and b) how we deal with new data and how we adapt or own hypotheses in the face of that.

For instance, Maciamo (and a lot of other people) were absolutely right that Neolithic sites would yield no R1b, but I think nobody genuinely expected before that G2 would be the dominant Neolithic Haplogroup in Europe (people were more expecting E1b and J2).

On that, once we do finally get Beaker-Bell samples, I kind of expect now we will get such a weird right-but-wrong situation again...

Dienekes' definitions in his list of the three models are weird, as you indicate. Migrationism is becoming popular among genetic athropologists who see that idea diffusion and demic diffusion don't fit the data. But migrationism doesn't imply colonalism, that's an absurd jump in logic that nobody but Dienekes seems to hold. People can be migrating intentionally, keeping to their own groups, and making warfare with other groups (obviously not demic diffusion) without anything mirroring colonialism. I also agree that "colonialism" is definitely overhyped in this context, and what we saw in prehistoric times can in no way be compared with the European colonies, or even with the colonies of the Greeks and Phoenicians.

09-01-2012, 12:48 PM	#27
luffyplayaz Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 455 Senior Member	I tend to agree with you rather than Dienekes on most things, Maciamo, and you're definitely winning the prediction contest if anybody is keeping score. Still, it's worth taking any individual's speculation with a grain of salt, even someone with as much data in front of him as Dienekes, or you, or Taranis, or anybody. Of course, even if we are to relegate Dienekes' usefulness to a source aggregator, he's nonetheless a very good source aggregator. Let me say this, any model that anybody here or elsewhere makes is only as good as the data that we have. Everybody of us makes mistakes from time to time (I make and made quite a number of mistakes, I know that ). The part where things make a difference is a) how good our hunch was and b) how we deal with new data and how we adapt or own hypotheses in the face of that. For instance, Maciamo (and a lot of other people) were absolutely right that Neolithic sites would yield no R1b, but I think nobody genuinely expected before that G2 would be the dominant Neolithic Haplogroup in Europe (people were more expecting E1b and J2). On that, once we do finally get Beaker-Bell samples, I kind of expect now we will get such a weird right-but-wrong situation again... Dienekes' definitions in his list of the three models are weird, as you indicate. Migrationism is becoming popular among genetic athropologists who see that idea diffusion and demic diffusion don't fit the data. But migrationism doesn't imply colonalism, that's an absurd jump in logic that nobody but Dienekes seems to hold. People can be migrating intentionally, keeping to their own groups, and making warfare with other groups (obviously not demic diffusion) without anything mirroring colonialism. I also agree that "colonialism" is definitely overhyped in this context, and what we saw in prehistoric times can in no way be compared with the European colonies, or even with the colonies of the Greeks and Phoenicians.
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