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**echocassidyde** · 09-01-2012, 12:48 PM

I don't think R1b L11- was what Maciamo was talking about, but you bring up a good point. Still, R1b L11- doesn't mirror other clearly Neolithic haplogroups in Europe (namely G2a). Was this a distinct Neolithic migration from G2a's in your opinion?

I suppose R1b L11- has some similar spots as G2a, but generally, if your map is right, it trends more Eastern, at least. Just drift in favor of G2a as the Neolithic population moved West?

Agreed it's a possibility, but I would see even older subclades in the Neolithic (L23 and upstream). The L11* in Romania and Bulgaria matches the area of the first Indo-European incursions into the Balkans circa 4000-3500 BCE. It may be a leftover from that period rather than from the Neolithic.

Now I consider it, you may be right: L23* tends to correspond much better with G2a, except where we may assume G2a arrived through the Cardium Pottery culture (which is probably where most of the Iberian, French, Sardinian, Corsican and Italian G2a came from) or later, as with the Etruscan G2a:

But what could probably shed some light into this would be a study of, for example, R1b-M412*

09-01-2012, 12:48 PM	#28
echocassidyde Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 407 Senior Member	I don't think R1b L11- was what Maciamo was talking about, but you bring up a good point. Still, R1b L11- doesn't mirror other clearly Neolithic haplogroups in Europe (namely G2a). Was this a distinct Neolithic migration from G2a's in your opinion? I suppose R1b L11- has some similar spots as G2a, but generally, if your map is right, it trends more Eastern, at least. Just drift in favor of G2a as the Neolithic population moved West? Agreed it's a possibility, but I would see even older subclades in the Neolithic (L23 and upstream). The L11* in Romania and Bulgaria matches the area of the first Indo-European incursions into the Balkans circa 4000-3500 BCE. It may be a leftover from that period rather than from the Neolithic. Now I consider it, you may be right: L23* tends to correspond much better with G2a, except where we may assume G2a arrived through the Cardium Pottery culture (which is probably where most of the Iberian, French, Sardinian, Corsican and Italian G2a came from) or later, as with the Etruscan G2a: But what could probably shed some light into this would be a study of, for example, R1b-M412*
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