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**secondmortgagek** · 11-30-2010, 08:54 PM

"Is using a forged Social Security Number -- but your own name -- to obtain employment or buy a car an identity theft crime? Lately, U.S. courts are saying it's not."

"The most recent judicial body to take on the issue, the Colorado Supreme Court, ruled last month that a man who used his real name but someone else's Social Security number to obtain a car loan was not guilty of "criminal impersonation," overturning convictions by lower courts."

"That follows a ruling last year by the U.S. Supreme Court that a Mexican man who gave a false SSN to get a job at an Illinois steel plant could not be convicted under federal identity theft laws because he did not knowingly use another person's identifying number."

"The ruling overturned an opinion by a federal appeals court in St. Louis -- and contradicted earlier findings by circuit courts in the Southeast, upper Midwest and the Gulf states."

Full article: http://redtape.msnbc.com/2010/11/cou...t-a-crime.html

This shows an awful lot of "Interpretation flexibility" by higher courts.

"The courts' logic"
"The U.S. Supreme Court decision was unanimous. In it, the justices found that an immigrant using an unknown person's SSN to obtain work authorization did not "knowingly" use information that belonged to another person, as required by the statute.
The suspect in the case, Ignacio Flores-Figueroa, presented a Social Security card with his name but a false SSN -- the number turned out to belong to a minor -- so he could work at steel plant in East Moline, Ill."

"He was convicted of immigration offenses and aggravated identity theft and given a 75-month jail sentence, including a two-year enhancement for the federal ID theft charge. His success in the Supreme Court reduced his sentence by 24 months. He is still subject to deportation when he finishes serving his time."

"Because Flores-Figueroa did not know if the number was real or manufactured, he did not know the number belonged to another person, so could not knowingly have committed identity theft the court said."

I don't see the "logic" to this decision because just using the SSN is a "Knowable" crime because the perp gives a number he doesn't own or know the source of and must know that he is providing a number he has no association with.

11-30-2010, 08:54 PM	#1
secondmortgagek Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 386 Senior Member	COURTS: USING ANOTHER'S SSN NOT A CRIME "Is using a forged Social Security Number -- but your own name -- to obtain employment or buy a car an identity theft crime? Lately, U.S. courts are saying it's not." "The most recent judicial body to take on the issue, the Colorado Supreme Court, ruled last month that a man who used his real name but someone else's Social Security number to obtain a car loan was not guilty of "criminal impersonation," overturning convictions by lower courts." "That follows a ruling last year by the U.S. Supreme Court that a Mexican man who gave a false SSN to get a job at an Illinois steel plant could not be convicted under federal identity theft laws because he did not knowingly use another person's identifying number." "The ruling overturned an opinion by a federal appeals court in St. Louis -- and contradicted earlier findings by circuit courts in the Southeast, upper Midwest and the Gulf states." Full article: http://redtape.msnbc.com/2010/11/cou...t-a-crime.html This shows an awful lot of "Interpretation flexibility" by higher courts. "The courts' logic" "The U.S. Supreme Court decision was unanimous. In it, the justices found that an immigrant using an unknown person's SSN to obtain work authorization did not "knowingly" use information that belonged to another person, as required by the statute. The suspect in the case, Ignacio Flores-Figueroa, presented a Social Security card with his name but a false SSN -- the number turned out to belong to a minor -- so he could work at steel plant in East Moline, Ill." "He was convicted of immigration offenses and aggravated identity theft and given a 75-month jail sentence, including a two-year enhancement for the federal ID theft charge. His success in the Supreme Court reduced his sentence by 24 months. He is still subject to deportation when he finishes serving his time." "Because Flores-Figueroa did not know if the number was real or manufactured, he did not know the number belonged to another person, so could not knowingly have committed identity theft the court said." I don't see the "logic" to this decision because just using the SSN is a "Knowable" crime because the perp gives a number he doesn't own or know the source of and must know that he is providing a number he has no association with.
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