DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - The Lord Jesus Christ is God in human flesh—your only hope for heaven.

**detskpit** · 07-26-2009, 11:51 AM

Do you think the following words were made up—not spoken by Jesus? The Apostle John reported Jesus as saying the following: "All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”

Now you can say Jesus never existed and that there is no Holy Spirit, but God wanted us to have His Words. Jesus said that heaven and earth would pass away—but not His Words. You can say that Jesus did not have the ability to preserve His Words, but saying something does not mean it’s true. I could tell you that you do not know how to breathe air, but you know you do.

See, you're getting off the rails again.

First, the fact that someone was reported to have said something and also reported to have said that everything he said would be preserved intact and that said reporting was done years after the fact (even leaving out the 2000 years of human editing) produces much room for skepticism. You accept it all on faith. I simply cannot.

Second, nothing I have said here nor what I believe denies that Jesus existed or that there is such a thing as the Holy Spirit. The difference is that I do not limit myself to what is presented in modern man's "Holy Bible" while trying to make sense of it all.

When I was young, I was taught John 3:16 repeatedly. Hence, when I went to the altar at 14 to "accept Jesus as my personal savior" I believed it was the logical step to take to insure my eternal soul is protected (not to mention that "everyone else was doing it"). But years later, it occurs to me that the words "whosoever believeth in him" doesn't necessarily mean what I thought it did when I was 14, and might instead refer to someone who lives their life in the general ways of Jesus' teachings, regardless of whether they make a similar pilgrimage to the altar.

Yet the folks who still gather in the building where I did that will claim that without that sort of pilgrimage, you will BURN IN HELL. That's just man-made hogwash. As is the exclusion from "heaven" of all who are not "Christians."

The Creator blessed us with brains that are capable of coming to our own conclusions of what our particular connection with him/her/it is. I recall that even such a personal relationship was once frowned upon by the keepers of the Bible, as it threatened the power and status of the church and its leaders of the time.

While the religious teachings of my childhood were helpful, they are not the whole story. Nor is skepticism or a quest for the bigger picture a "temptation from Satan," which it has been branded by some folks who hold a similar level of faith as you appear to.

I equate Bible literalists to those who are satisifed with working day in and day out for someone else: If it makes them content, great, but it's just not something I can stomach. In my book, the Creator wants us all to be all that we can be, including how we each develop our concept of him/her/it.

07-26-2009, 11:51 AM	#26
detskpit Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 350 Senior Member	Do you think the following words were made up—not spoken by Jesus? The Apostle John reported Jesus as saying the following: "All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” Now you can say Jesus never existed and that there is no Holy Spirit, but God wanted us to have His Words. Jesus said that heaven and earth would pass away—but not His Words. You can say that Jesus did not have the ability to preserve His Words, but saying something does not mean it’s true. I could tell you that you do not know how to breathe air, but you know you do. See, you're getting off the rails again. First, the fact that someone was reported to have said something and also reported to have said that everything he said would be preserved intact and that said reporting was done years after the fact (even leaving out the 2000 years of human editing) produces much room for skepticism. You accept it all on faith. I simply cannot. Second, nothing I have said here nor what I believe denies that Jesus existed or that there is such a thing as the Holy Spirit. The difference is that I do not limit myself to what is presented in modern man's "Holy Bible" while trying to make sense of it all. When I was young, I was taught John 3:16 repeatedly. Hence, when I went to the altar at 14 to "accept Jesus as my personal savior" I believed it was the logical step to take to insure my eternal soul is protected (not to mention that "everyone else was doing it"). But years later, it occurs to me that the words "whosoever believeth in him" doesn't necessarily mean what I thought it did when I was 14, and might instead refer to someone who lives their life in the general ways of Jesus' teachings, regardless of whether they make a similar pilgrimage to the altar. Yet the folks who still gather in the building where I did that will claim that without that sort of pilgrimage, you will BURN IN HELL. That's just man-made hogwash. As is the exclusion from "heaven" of all who are not "Christians." The Creator blessed us with brains that are capable of coming to our own conclusions of what our particular connection with him/her/it is. I recall that even such a personal relationship was once frowned upon by the keepers of the Bible, as it threatened the power and status of the church and its leaders of the time. While the religious teachings of my childhood were helpful, they are not the whole story. Nor is skepticism or a quest for the bigger picture a "temptation from Satan," which it has been branded by some folks who hold a similar level of faith as you appear to. I equate Bible literalists to those who are satisifed with working day in and day out for someone else: If it makes them content, great, but it's just not something I can stomach. In my book, the Creator wants us all to be all that we can be, including how we each develop our concept of him/her/it.
	Quote