DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post

**UTHZzJ6f** · 07-27-2009, 01:51 AM

For all the Christian bashers salivating at the resurrection of this thread from PBlog, don't. Many Christian sects, most notably Catholicism, recognize that God and evolution can and most likely do co-exist.

My Roman Catholic friend, Hugh Owen (a contributor to my Reasons to Affirm a Young Earth booklet), sees it differently. He sends me info from time to time.

He shared, earlier this year, that "Catholic scientists, philosophers, and historians gathered in Rome at the National Research Council for a symposium entitled, 'The Theory of Evolution: A Critical Analysis.' The participants, representing six nations in Europe, North, and South America, included Guy Berthault, sedimentologist, Hugh Miller (another contributor to my Reasons to Affirm a Young Earth booklet, BTW), a research chemist, Dr. Jean de Pontcharra, an atomic physicist, Dr. Pierre Rabischong, former dean of the Medical School of Montpellier, Dr. Maciej Giertych, a population geneticist, Prof. Roberto de Mattei, historian, Dr. Thomas Seiler, physicist, Dr. Alma Von Stockhausen, philosopher, Dr. Dominique Tassot, philosopher, and Dr. Josef Seifert, philosopher. I also presented a paper from an historical perspective entitled, “The Negative Impact of the Evolutionary Hypothesis on Modern Science: A Retrospective Assessment.”

Those in attendance at the symposium included a representative of the Pontifical Council for Culture, priest representatives of two other religious congregations, professors from Regina Apostolorum, the University of Bologna , the Lateran University , and the University of Perugia , experts in various disciplines from the National Research Council, and a number of journalists.

The day’s presentations delivered a devastating refutation of the evolutionary hypothesis. The hypothesis of biological evolution was established on the foundations of the Lyellian geological time-scale which in turn was based on the sedimentological principles formulated by Nicholas Stenon in the seventeenth century. Mr. Guy Berthault presented the results of his experimental laboratory and field research which refute the fundamental principles of Lyellian geology and demonstrate that massive sedimentary rock formations around the world have formed in a fraction of the time allocated to them by the conventional time scale.

Dr. Jean de Pontcharra followed Guy Berthault by demonstrating the unreliability of radiometric dating for long ages. Despite very impressive and powerful measurement and characterization tools, and physical and chemical analysis methods, Dr. Pontcharra demonstrated that the dating of rocks using radioactive elements requires very basic assumptions whose validity has not been demonstrated. In the particular case of K/Ar method, the presence of excess Ar and the impossibility of correcting the bias introduced call into question all of the “model ages” results obtained during the last several decades in paleontology.

On behalf of his co-authors, Dr. Josef Holzschuh and Dr. Jean de Pontcharra, research chemist Hugh Miller then presented the results of several years of research in the C-14 dating of dinosaur bones. The discovery of collagen in a Tyrannosaurus-rex dinosaur femur bone was recently reported in the journal Science. When Triceratops and Hadrosaur femur bones in excellent condition were discovered by the Glendive (MT) Dinosaur & Fossil Museum , Miller asked and received permission to saw them in half and collect samples for C-14 testing of any bone collagen that might be extracted. Indeed both bones contained collagen and conventional dates of 30,890 ± 380 radiocarbon years (RC) for the Triceratops and 23,170 ±170 RC years for the Hadrosaur were obtained using the Accelerated Mass Spectrometer ( AMS ). Total organic carbon and/or dinosaur bone bio-apatite was then extracted and pretreated to remove potential contaminants and concordant radiocarbon dates were obtained, all of which were similar to radiocarbon dates for megafauna. Although the radiocarbon dates are not absolute dates, the fact that dinosaur bones consistently possess the same radiocarbon ages as other megafauna such as mastodons known to have been contemporary with man flatly contradicts the evolutionary time scale according to which dinosaurs became extinct 65 million years ago.

Physicist Dr. Thomas Seiler approached the evolutionary hypothesis from a different perspective by evaluating its claims against the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Simply and clearly, Dr. Seiler demonstrated that while order may manifest in natural objects as a result of physical or chemical properties of those objects, specific complexity, such as the DNA code, has never been known to develop without intelligent direction.

As an expert in biology, Dr. Pierre Rabischong then gave a fascinating description of the organization of the human body and concluded that the non-existent natural filiations among species and the high-tech nature of all living systems flatly contradict the evolutionary hypothesis.

From his perspective as a population geneticist, Dr. Maciej Giertych evaluated the main evidence for the evolutionary hypothesis, namely race formation. Dr. Giertych demonstrated that macroevolution requires an increase of genetic variants, and that race formation which depends on their reduction is a process in the opposite direction, comparable to extinction. He showed that positive mutations, as a mechanism leading to new functions or organs, are an undemonstrated postulate. He argued that one can demonstrate many neutral and negative mutations, but no positive ones. He questioned the claim that the appearance of resistance to man-made chemicals (herbicides, fungicides, antibiotics, etc.) is evidence of positive mutations on the ground that it belongs to the multitude of defense mechanisms (like healing or acquiring immunity) defending existing life functions of an organism and not creating new ones.

The afternoon lectures examined the evolutionary hypothesis from an historical and philosophical perspective. Dr. Alma Von Stockhausen, the foundress of Gustav Seiwerth Akadamie in Germany , exposed the roots of evolutionary thought in the theology of Martin Luther and the philosophy of George Frederich Hegel. Dr. Josef Seifert, rector of the Academy of Philosophy in Chile , offered critical reflections on evolutionism as a scientific or pseudo-scientific theory and as an atheist ideology, and Dr. Dominique Tassot demonstrated the numerous logical fallacies commonly used to defend the evolutionary hypothesis.

In the face of the global celebration of anniversary of the publication of Origin of Species, it seemed important to examine the evolutionary hypothesis from an historical perspective. To this end, I presented a retrospective assessment, demonstrating that confidence in the truth of the evolutionary hypothesis has repeatedly hindered scientists and medical researchers from investigating the functionality of various organs and biological systems at a great cost in human lives and avoidable human suffering.

The proceedings of the symposium will be published in English and Italian later in the “year of Darwin ” either by the National Research Council or by another publisher in Rome . This marks the second time in four months that a group of distinguished Catholic scientists has given a thorough scientific critique of the evolutionary hypothesis without any appeal to Divine Revelation. To date, none of the evolutionists who attended either of the symposia has been able to offer a persuasive rebuttal to the scientific critique of the evolutionary hypothesis offered by our colleagues.

If you want to verify that Hugh Owen contributed to my booklet, click on
http://www.hexc0de.com/nuke/modules....download&cid=4.

07-27-2009, 01:51 AM	#38
UTHZzJ6f Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 420 Senior Member	For all the Christian bashers salivating at the resurrection of this thread from PBlog, don't. Many Christian sects, most notably Catholicism, recognize that God and evolution can and most likely do co-exist. My Roman Catholic friend, Hugh Owen (a contributor to my Reasons to Affirm a Young Earth booklet), sees it differently. He sends me info from time to time. He shared, earlier this year, that "Catholic scientists, philosophers, and historians gathered in Rome at the National Research Council for a symposium entitled, 'The Theory of Evolution: A Critical Analysis.' The participants, representing six nations in Europe, North, and South America, included Guy Berthault, sedimentologist, Hugh Miller (another contributor to my Reasons to Affirm a Young Earth booklet, BTW), a research chemist, Dr. Jean de Pontcharra, an atomic physicist, Dr. Pierre Rabischong, former dean of the Medical School of Montpellier, Dr. Maciej Giertych, a population geneticist, Prof. Roberto de Mattei, historian, Dr. Thomas Seiler, physicist, Dr. Alma Von Stockhausen, philosopher, Dr. Dominique Tassot, philosopher, and Dr. Josef Seifert, philosopher. I also presented a paper from an historical perspective entitled, “The Negative Impact of the Evolutionary Hypothesis on Modern Science: A Retrospective Assessment.” Those in attendance at the symposium included a representative of the Pontifical Council for Culture, priest representatives of two other religious congregations, professors from Regina Apostolorum, the University of Bologna , the Lateran University , and the University of Perugia , experts in various disciplines from the National Research Council, and a number of journalists. The day’s presentations delivered a devastating refutation of the evolutionary hypothesis. The hypothesis of biological evolution was established on the foundations of the Lyellian geological time-scale which in turn was based on the sedimentological principles formulated by Nicholas Stenon in the seventeenth century. Mr. Guy Berthault presented the results of his experimental laboratory and field research which refute the fundamental principles of Lyellian geology and demonstrate that massive sedimentary rock formations around the world have formed in a fraction of the time allocated to them by the conventional time scale. Dr. Jean de Pontcharra followed Guy Berthault by demonstrating the unreliability of radiometric dating for long ages. Despite very impressive and powerful measurement and characterization tools, and physical and chemical analysis methods, Dr. Pontcharra demonstrated that the dating of rocks using radioactive elements requires very basic assumptions whose validity has not been demonstrated. In the particular case of K/Ar method, the presence of excess Ar and the impossibility of correcting the bias introduced call into question all of the “model ages” results obtained during the last several decades in paleontology. On behalf of his co-authors, Dr. Josef Holzschuh and Dr. Jean de Pontcharra, research chemist Hugh Miller then presented the results of several years of research in the C-14 dating of dinosaur bones. The discovery of collagen in a Tyrannosaurus-rex dinosaur femur bone was recently reported in the journal Science. When Triceratops and Hadrosaur femur bones in excellent condition were discovered by the Glendive (MT) Dinosaur & Fossil Museum , Miller asked and received permission to saw them in half and collect samples for C-14 testing of any bone collagen that might be extracted. Indeed both bones contained collagen and conventional dates of 30,890 ± 380 radiocarbon years (RC) for the Triceratops and 23,170 ±170 RC years for the Hadrosaur were obtained using the Accelerated Mass Spectrometer ( AMS ). Total organic carbon and/or dinosaur bone bio-apatite was then extracted and pretreated to remove potential contaminants and concordant radiocarbon dates were obtained, all of which were similar to radiocarbon dates for megafauna. Although the radiocarbon dates are not absolute dates, the fact that dinosaur bones consistently possess the same radiocarbon ages as other megafauna such as mastodons known to have been contemporary with man flatly contradicts the evolutionary time scale according to which dinosaurs became extinct 65 million years ago. Physicist Dr. Thomas Seiler approached the evolutionary hypothesis from a different perspective by evaluating its claims against the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Simply and clearly, Dr. Seiler demonstrated that while order may manifest in natural objects as a result of physical or chemical properties of those objects, specific complexity, such as the DNA code, has never been known to develop without intelligent direction. As an expert in biology, Dr. Pierre Rabischong then gave a fascinating description of the organization of the human body and concluded that the non-existent natural filiations among species and the high-tech nature of all living systems flatly contradict the evolutionary hypothesis. From his perspective as a population geneticist, Dr. Maciej Giertych evaluated the main evidence for the evolutionary hypothesis, namely race formation. Dr. Giertych demonstrated that macroevolution requires an increase of genetic variants, and that race formation which depends on their reduction is a process in the opposite direction, comparable to extinction. He showed that positive mutations, as a mechanism leading to new functions or organs, are an undemonstrated postulate. He argued that one can demonstrate many neutral and negative mutations, but no positive ones. He questioned the claim that the appearance of resistance to man-made chemicals (herbicides, fungicides, antibiotics, etc.) is evidence of positive mutations on the ground that it belongs to the multitude of defense mechanisms (like healing or acquiring immunity) defending existing life functions of an organism and not creating new ones. The afternoon lectures examined the evolutionary hypothesis from an historical and philosophical perspective. Dr. Alma Von Stockhausen, the foundress of Gustav Seiwerth Akadamie in Germany , exposed the roots of evolutionary thought in the theology of Martin Luther and the philosophy of George Frederich Hegel. Dr. Josef Seifert, rector of the Academy of Philosophy in Chile , offered critical reflections on evolutionism as a scientific or pseudo-scientific theory and as an atheist ideology, and Dr. Dominique Tassot demonstrated the numerous logical fallacies commonly used to defend the evolutionary hypothesis. In the face of the global celebration of anniversary of the publication of Origin of Species, it seemed important to examine the evolutionary hypothesis from an historical perspective. To this end, I presented a retrospective assessment, demonstrating that confidence in the truth of the evolutionary hypothesis has repeatedly hindered scientists and medical researchers from investigating the functionality of various organs and biological systems at a great cost in human lives and avoidable human suffering. The proceedings of the symposium will be published in English and Italian later in the “year of Darwin ” either by the National Research Council or by another publisher in Rome . This marks the second time in four months that a group of distinguished Catholic scientists has given a thorough scientific critique of the evolutionary hypothesis without any appeal to Divine Revelation. To date, none of the evolutionists who attended either of the symposia has been able to offer a persuasive rebuttal to the scientific critique of the evolutionary hypothesis offered by our colleagues. If you want to verify that Hugh Owen contributed to my booklet, click on http://www.hexc0de.com/nuke/modules....download&cid=4.
	Quote