DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Praying behind Mamatis is not permissible

**joe-salton** · 09-04-2012, 03:57 AM

@Brother Abu Zakariya Yahya:

Moulana Ilyas Ghuman proved from the Qur'an that it is against the Qur'an to say that Rasoolullah is dead. Why? Because the Qur'an says that the shuhada are alive but we do not sense them. If you say that they are alive in the sense that they are in the barzakh, then their "life" is the same as the death of every other person. Why were they specially mentioned as being alive and for us to not call them as being dead?

I don't know who the Mawlana is and I don't speak Urdu so I can't listen to his videos. But I don't believe it's against the Qur'aan to say that anyone is dead, when Allah says everyone shall taste death.... I think there is a big difference between life as in this dunya, and the life that one is given as a shaheed. Even the ayah you posted does not indicate that the life they are given is one of this dunya, so can't we say that this is a belief based upon a mutaashabih ayah of the Quraan?

Al-Qurtubi says in his tafseer concerning this verse:

"They are alive in Jannah provided for by Allah, and it is not impossible that they are dead and that their bodies are in the ground, while their souls are alive similar to the souls of the rest of the believers, and the preference they are given is the Rizq that Allah supplies them with, from the time they are killed, until it is as if they were always living in this life" Ibn Katheer says:

"Allah informs us that the martyrs in this life were killed, and in the next life their souls are alive provided for by Allah" At-Tabari says:

"As for those that were killed at Uhud from among the companions of the Prophet

, Allah said to him

don't think they are dead, and that they don't feel, or taste or take pleasure from anything, because they are Alive with me (Allah) living pleasantly with his rizq, happy and content from that which Allah has given them" Ibn al-Jawzi says:
"Don't think they are dead, like the death of those who didn't die in the way of Allah (as Shuhada), and as I've said their life is that of the shapes of birds in paradise, eating from the fruits therein" As for the ahadeeth and the Qur'anic verses, you have to reconcile them with the Qur'anic verses about the shuhada being alive. It is quite easy to do, as well. I agree, but I still don't get what you're saying.

Also if you take this hadith you will see the meaning reconciled with the verses,

On the authority of Abu Huraira who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say:... "By the Being in Whose Hand is my life, I love that I should be killed in the way of Allah; then I should be brought back to life and be killed again in His way." So, it's clear that the worldly death occurs, and they would wish to be brought back to a worldly life in order to receive a worldly death, right?

The tafaseer I have seen show that they believed that in this life they have indeed died, and their life and this verse is speaking about a hereafter life, it doesn't mean that they died in this life... but didn't actually die in this life....

Are you saying that they are alive in hayatu dunya?

09-04-2012, 03:57 AM	#16
joe-salton Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 464 Senior Member	@Brother Abu Zakariya Yahya: Moulana Ilyas Ghuman proved from the Qur'an that it is against the Qur'an to say that Rasoolullah is dead. Why? Because the Qur'an says that the shuhada are alive but we do not sense them. If you say that they are alive in the sense that they are in the barzakh, then their "life" is the same as the death of every other person. Why were they specially mentioned as being alive and for us to not call them as being dead? I don't know who the Mawlana is and I don't speak Urdu so I can't listen to his videos. But I don't believe it's against the Qur'aan to say that anyone is dead, when Allah says everyone shall taste death.... I think there is a big difference between life as in this dunya, and the life that one is given as a shaheed. Even the ayah you posted does not indicate that the life they are given is one of this dunya, so can't we say that this is a belief based upon a mutaashabih ayah of the Quraan? Al-Qurtubi says in his tafseer concerning this verse: "They are alive in Jannah provided for by Allah, and it is not impossible that they are dead and that their bodies are in the ground, while their souls are alive similar to the souls of the rest of the believers, and the preference they are given is the Rizq that Allah supplies them with, from the time they are killed, until it is as if they were always living in this life" Ibn Katheer says: "Allah informs us that the martyrs in this life were killed, and in the next life their souls are alive provided for by Allah" At-Tabari says: "As for those that were killed at Uhud from among the companions of the Prophet , Allah said to him don't think they are dead, and that they don't feel, or taste or take pleasure from anything, because they are Alive with me (Allah) living pleasantly with his rizq, happy and content from that which Allah has given them" Ibn al-Jawzi says: "Don't think they are dead, like the death of those who didn't die in the way of Allah (as Shuhada), and as I've said their life is that of the shapes of birds in paradise, eating from the fruits therein" As for the ahadeeth and the Qur'anic verses, you have to reconcile them with the Qur'anic verses about the shuhada being alive. It is quite easy to do, as well. I agree, but I still don't get what you're saying. Also if you take this hadith you will see the meaning reconciled with the verses, On the authority of Abu Huraira who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say:... "By the Being in Whose Hand is my life, I love that I should be killed in the way of Allah; then I should be brought back to life and be killed again in His way." So, it's clear that the worldly death occurs, and they would wish to be brought back to a worldly life in order to receive a worldly death, right? The tafaseer I have seen show that they believed that in this life they have indeed died, and their life and this verse is speaking about a hereafter life, it doesn't mean that they died in this life... but didn't actually die in this life.... Are you saying that they are alive in hayatu dunya?
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