DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - 3 min discussion with a Salafi about attributes of Allah (SWT).

**wrefrinny** · 09-04-2012, 03:57 AM

i dont want to discuss dhahir vs. ta'weel because i feel that for this particular contradiction it is not required. it has been discussed several times. you must have seen that. You are the third top poster here. it will only expand the discussion unneccesarily. as for the salaf's 'presumed' ta'wil, it is a misunderstanding it is dhahir at that particular mahal.

You can term it as you wish. Salaf's 'presumed' mahal of dhahir.. is what Asha'ira say Mahal of Ta'weel (Ta'weel Saheeh). Thus tatbeeq is done.. your case closed. Isnt it amazing that all the way until now you have yet ONE example to give of this incorrect ta'weel.. one that can shatter the Ashari claim that they only do ta'weel in the presence of an appropriate daleel..

i never denied that. same is done by ash'aris and maturidis against atharis/hanbalis/salafis. your questions answered. Well for one thing.. you wont find Mutakhireen in Ashari and Maturidi giving fatwa on athari or salafis.. they didnt appear until a long time back. As for the hanbali.. I mentioned already that it is infact the deobandi who take his stance of "la kayf wa la ma'na"..

Also the misguidance and danger of mutashabih have always been looked down from the time of the salaf. Even when Ibn Taymiya r.a made sareeh tahdeed and Sarahat of such actios and claims.. he was heavily made kalam on.

now answer two of my questions: I have been answering and clarifying for you for a good few hours since last night havent i...?

1) as a mufawwd do you beleive that besides Allah anybody knows the meaning of sifat (where ikhtilaf occured like YAD, WAJH etc) ? No.

2) what is your position on mutakallimeen ? Mutakallimeen or Kalam? A mutakalim can very well be according to Quran and Sunnah just like the Ulama were who used kalam to make rad of all the wrong aqaid.

so what position?

09-04-2012, 03:57 AM	#18
wrefrinny Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 583 Senior Member	i dont want to discuss dhahir vs. ta'weel because i feel that for this particular contradiction it is not required. it has been discussed several times. you must have seen that. You are the third top poster here. it will only expand the discussion unneccesarily. as for the salaf's 'presumed' ta'wil, it is a misunderstanding it is dhahir at that particular mahal. You can term it as you wish. Salaf's 'presumed' mahal of dhahir.. is what Asha'ira say Mahal of Ta'weel (Ta'weel Saheeh). Thus tatbeeq is done.. your case closed. Isnt it amazing that all the way until now you have yet ONE example to give of this incorrect ta'weel.. one that can shatter the Ashari claim that they only do ta'weel in the presence of an appropriate daleel.. i never denied that. same is done by ash'aris and maturidis against atharis/hanbalis/salafis. your questions answered. Well for one thing.. you wont find Mutakhireen in Ashari and Maturidi giving fatwa on athari or salafis.. they didnt appear until a long time back. As for the hanbali.. I mentioned already that it is infact the deobandi who take his stance of "la kayf wa la ma'na".. Also the misguidance and danger of mutashabih have always been looked down from the time of the salaf. Even when Ibn Taymiya r.a made sareeh tahdeed and Sarahat of such actios and claims.. he was heavily made kalam on. now answer two of my questions: I have been answering and clarifying for you for a good few hours since last night havent i...? 1) as a mufawwd do you beleive that besides Allah anybody knows the meaning of sifat (where ikhtilaf occured like YAD, WAJH etc) ? No. 2) what is your position on mutakallimeen ? Mutakallimeen or Kalam? A mutakalim can very well be according to Quran and Sunnah just like the Ulama were who used kalam to make rad of all the wrong aqaid. so what position?
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