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**DeedPatmeda** · 04-07-2012, 01:27 PM

There is a difference between direction and shortest distance brother, everyone used to pray southeast before 30-40 years ago (i can only say about ontario for sure though). i dont really want to get into an argument though, since im not a scholar or someone very learned myself.

Also, finding the qiblah is a personal obligation, and its not possible for everybody to calculate the shortest distance by themselves, a layman will choose SE by himself from north america, and what the older generations of muslims did wasnt to go through some hectic calculations which need scientific advancement etc. .Its not only habashis who say its southeast though. sorry if my paragraph lacks any structure, its late at night and i cant bring myself to put much mental effort into my posts (in terms of style and structure) for the time being.

إِنَّا أُمَّةٌ أُمِّيَّةٌ، لاَ نَكْتُبُ وَلاَ نَحْسبُ
“We are an illiterate nation. We do not write and we do not calculate. ”

Check the explanation of the hadith:
فتح الباري لابن رجب (3 / 67:
ويدل على ذلك من الأدلة الشرعية: قول النبي - صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ -: ((إنا أمة أمية، لا نكتب ولا نحسب، الشهر هكذا وهكذا وهكذا)) ، وخنس إبهامه في الثالثة، ثم قال: ((صوموا لرؤيته، وأفطروا لرؤيته، فإن غم عليكم فأكملوا العدة)) .
فتبين أن ديننا لا يحتاج إلى حساب ولا كتاب
Fathul-Bari by Ibn Rajab: “…The religious evidence that proves that is the saying of the Prophet, ‘We are an illiterate nation. We do not write and we do not calculate. The month is like this and like this…’ …(Ibn Rajab said) So it became clear that our Religion does not need calculations nor writing.”
طرح التثريب في شرح التقريب (4 / 114:
وَالسَّبَبُ الشَّرْعِيُّ لِلْوُجُوبِ إنَّمَا هُوَ الرُّؤْيَةُ لَا عِلْمَ ذَلِكَ بِالْحِسَابِ لِقَوْلِهِ - عَلَيْهِ الصَّلَاةُ وَالسَّلَامُ - فِي الْحَدِيثِ الصَّحِيحِ «إنَّا أُمَّةٌ أُمِّيَّةٌ لَا نَحْسِبُ وَلَا نَكْتُبُ» الْحَدِيثَ انْتَهَى.
وَقَدْ ظَهَرَ بِمَا بَسَطَاهُ صِحَّةُ مَذْهَبِ الْجُمْهُورِ فِي تَعْلِيقِ الْحُكْمِ بِالرُّؤْيَةِ دُونَ غَيْرِهَا وَبِهِ قَالَ مَالِكٌ وَالشَّافِعِيُّ وَأَبُو حَنِيفَةَ وَجُمْهُورُ الْعُلَمَاءِ مِنْ السَّلَفِ وَالْخَلَفِ
Al-^Iraqiyy says “The Religious issue that dictates the obligation is sighting, not the knowledge of that by calculation, because of his saying, ‘We are an illiterate nation. We do not write and we do not calculate.’ The correctness of the school of the majority has become clear by what we have explained with detail, which is making the ruling dependant on sighting, not something else, and this is what Malik, Ash-Shafi^iyy and Abu Hanifah said, and the majority of the scholars of the Salaf and the Khalaf.”
عمدة القاري شرح صحيح البخاري (10 / 286:
وعلق الشَّارِع الصَّوْم وَغَيره بِالرُّؤْيَةِ لرفع الْحَرج عَن أمته
Al-3Ayniyy the Hanafiyy says in the explanation of Sahih Al-Bukhariyy about this hadith ‘We are an illiterate nation’: “The Law Bringer (the Prophet) has made the fasting and other things dependent on sighting, to lift the burden (of calculations) from his nation.”
عمدة القاري شرح صحيح البخاري (13 / 192:
فَإِن قلت: {فاكتبوه} (الْبَقَرَة: 282) . أَمر من الله تَعَالَى، وَثَبت فِي (الصَّحِيحَيْنِ) عَن ابْن عمر، قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُول الله، صلى الله عَلَيْهِ وَسلم: (إِنَّا أمة أُميَّة لَا نكتب وَلَا نحسب) ، فَمَا الْجمع بَينهمَا؟ قلت: إِن الدّين من حَيْثُ هُوَ غير مفتقر إِلَى كِتَابَة أصلا لِأَن كتاب الله قد سهل الله حفظه على النَّاس وَالسّنَن أَيْضا مَحْفُوظَة عَن رَسُول الله، صلى الله عَلَيْهِ وَسلم، وَالَّذِي أَمر بكتابه إِنَّمَا هُوَ أَشْيَاء جزئية تقع بَين النَّاس، فَأمروا أَمر إرشاد لَا أَمر إِيجَاب، كَمَا ذهب إِلَيْهِ، وَهُوَ مَذْهَب الْجُمْهُور، فَإِن كتب فَحسن، وَإِن ترك فَلَا بَأْس.
And he says: “If you say {فاكتبوه} (which means) - is an order from Allah to write, but it is confirmed from the Messenger of Allah: ‘We are an illiterate nation, we do not write and we do not calculate’, so how do you put those two together (so to avoid contradiction)? I say: The Religion in itself is not in need of writing in the first place, because Allah made memorizing the Book of Allah easy on the people, and the Sunnahs are also memorized (or preserved) from the Messenger of Allah. What was ordered (in the Qur’an) to be written is only some particular matters that take place among the people. They were ordered with an order to guide them (to a benefit), not an order of obligation… and this is the school of the majority. If one wrote, it is good, and he did not, there is no problem.” some good links i saw on this:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-north-america

http://www.mediamonitors.net/afzalkhan1.html

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/arch...p/t-29701.html

04-07-2012, 01:27 PM	#19
DeedPatmeda Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 462 Senior Member	There is a difference between direction and shortest distance brother, everyone used to pray southeast before 30-40 years ago (i can only say about ontario for sure though). i dont really want to get into an argument though, since im not a scholar or someone very learned myself. Also, finding the qiblah is a personal obligation, and its not possible for everybody to calculate the shortest distance by themselves, a layman will choose SE by himself from north america, and what the older generations of muslims did wasnt to go through some hectic calculations which need scientific advancement etc. .Its not only habashis who say its southeast though. sorry if my paragraph lacks any structure, its late at night and i cant bring myself to put much mental effort into my posts (in terms of style and structure) for the time being. إِنَّا أُمَّةٌ أُمِّيَّةٌ، لاَ نَكْتُبُ وَلاَ نَحْسبُ “We are an illiterate nation. We do not write and we do not calculate. ” Check the explanation of the hadith: فتح الباري لابن رجب (3 / 67: ويدل على ذلك من الأدلة الشرعية: قول النبي - صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ -: ((إنا أمة أمية، لا نكتب ولا نحسب، الشهر هكذا وهكذا وهكذا)) ، وخنس إبهامه في الثالثة، ثم قال: ((صوموا لرؤيته، وأفطروا لرؤيته، فإن غم عليكم فأكملوا العدة)) . فتبين أن ديننا لا يحتاج إلى حساب ولا كتاب Fathul-Bari by Ibn Rajab: “…The religious evidence that proves that is the saying of the Prophet, ‘We are an illiterate nation. We do not write and we do not calculate. The month is like this and like this…’ …(Ibn Rajab said) So it became clear that our Religion does not need calculations nor writing.” طرح التثريب في شرح التقريب (4 / 114: وَالسَّبَبُ الشَّرْعِيُّ لِلْوُجُوبِ إنَّمَا هُوَ الرُّؤْيَةُ لَا عِلْمَ ذَلِكَ بِالْحِسَابِ لِقَوْلِهِ - عَلَيْهِ الصَّلَاةُ وَالسَّلَامُ - فِي الْحَدِيثِ الصَّحِيحِ «إنَّا أُمَّةٌ أُمِّيَّةٌ لَا نَحْسِبُ وَلَا نَكْتُبُ» الْحَدِيثَ انْتَهَى. وَقَدْ ظَهَرَ بِمَا بَسَطَاهُ صِحَّةُ مَذْهَبِ الْجُمْهُورِ فِي تَعْلِيقِ الْحُكْمِ بِالرُّؤْيَةِ دُونَ غَيْرِهَا وَبِهِ قَالَ مَالِكٌ وَالشَّافِعِيُّ وَأَبُو حَنِيفَةَ وَجُمْهُورُ الْعُلَمَاءِ مِنْ السَّلَفِ وَالْخَلَفِ Al-^Iraqiyy says “The Religious issue that dictates the obligation is sighting, not the knowledge of that by calculation, because of his saying, ‘We are an illiterate nation. We do not write and we do not calculate.’ The correctness of the school of the majority has become clear by what we have explained with detail, which is making the ruling dependant on sighting, not something else, and this is what Malik, Ash-Shafi^iyy and Abu Hanifah said, and the majority of the scholars of the Salaf and the Khalaf.” عمدة القاري شرح صحيح البخاري (10 / 286: وعلق الشَّارِع الصَّوْم وَغَيره بِالرُّؤْيَةِ لرفع الْحَرج عَن أمته Al-3Ayniyy the Hanafiyy says in the explanation of Sahih Al-Bukhariyy about this hadith ‘We are an illiterate nation’: “The Law Bringer (the Prophet) has made the fasting and other things dependent on sighting, to lift the burden (of calculations) from his nation.” عمدة القاري شرح صحيح البخاري (13 / 192: فَإِن قلت: {فاكتبوه} (الْبَقَرَة: 282) . أَمر من الله تَعَالَى، وَثَبت فِي (الصَّحِيحَيْنِ) عَن ابْن عمر، قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُول الله، صلى الله عَلَيْهِ وَسلم: (إِنَّا أمة أُميَّة لَا نكتب وَلَا نحسب) ، فَمَا الْجمع بَينهمَا؟ قلت: إِن الدّين من حَيْثُ هُوَ غير مفتقر إِلَى كِتَابَة أصلا لِأَن كتاب الله قد سهل الله حفظه على النَّاس وَالسّنَن أَيْضا مَحْفُوظَة عَن رَسُول الله، صلى الله عَلَيْهِ وَسلم، وَالَّذِي أَمر بكتابه إِنَّمَا هُوَ أَشْيَاء جزئية تقع بَين النَّاس، فَأمروا أَمر إرشاد لَا أَمر إِيجَاب، كَمَا ذهب إِلَيْهِ، وَهُوَ مَذْهَب الْجُمْهُور، فَإِن كتب فَحسن، وَإِن ترك فَلَا بَأْس. And he says: “If you say {فاكتبوه} (which means) - is an order from Allah to write, but it is confirmed from the Messenger of Allah: ‘We are an illiterate nation, we do not write and we do not calculate’, so how do you put those two together (so to avoid contradiction)? I say: The Religion in itself is not in need of writing in the first place, because Allah made memorizing the Book of Allah easy on the people, and the Sunnahs are also memorized (or preserved) from the Messenger of Allah. What was ordered (in the Qur’an) to be written is only some particular matters that take place among the people. They were ordered with an order to guide them (to a benefit), not an order of obligation… and this is the school of the majority. If one wrote, it is good, and he did not, there is no problem.” some good links i saw on this: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-north-america http://www.mediamonitors.net/afzalkhan1.html http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/arch...p/t-29701.html
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