DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Transition dawah for the West

**Niobaralegra** · 09-04-2012, 03:56 AM

What you are suggesting won't work.

I personally find it dishonest to begin with, and besides, anyone with an internet connection can find out for himself what the shariah says about the murtad, or music, or dress codes.

Once iman is there, obedience to ahkam should follow naturally.

I wouldn't discount jihad as a means of dawah.

for your opinion.

No one is saying lie about issues to the Westerners but rather promote and make legitimate transition dawah groups and individuals who either believe in the validity of these things or who focus on only important things concerning Iman and love of Allah.

For e.g I would argue that people like tahir-ul-qadri and harun yahya would probably be more effective in western settings than a traditional deobandi Alim or a traditional saudi-salafist for alluring the westerners to Islam. We should therefore promote the works of the former amongst the western audience. I would also say Abdul-hakim Murad, Suheib webb and all other more liberal leaning Muslims need to be supported.

Its obvious Iman needs to emphasize first thats why I am saying this things. Now just imagine a person who is a general da'ee, one day he talks about love of Allah, the second about beheading apostates, the third about compassion in ISlam, the fourth about calling liberally dressed women prostitutes deserving of rape, the fifth about charity in Islam, the sixth about the curse of beethoven, taylor swift and any other clean musician. I hope you are getting my point. Rather talk everyday about Iman, compassion, tolerance, advancement, mental serentiy and avoid those topics or be liberal in them.

I am tallking about effectiveness of dawah in Islam. I am saying if you believe in the conservative strain in Islam dont displace, deride, weaken the transitional da'ees if they are making an impact in the west. Call them proper legitimate muslims and limit antagonism to muslim circles and countries and argue against their opinions in a spirit of intellectualism or rather work to making your group the strongest in Islamic cultures if you really believe you are the best. But dont aim for being the best by being the most vocal to people who wont even listen to you or who perceive opinions as annoying brays in the first place. You will see most westerners commenting we dont want to go back to the 7th century or the desert because of all these peripheral opinions which Muslims in the west make -ban music, soccer, entertainment, make women niqabi, liberal women are whores, women in the home must, beard must, shirt-trouser haram, trouser above ankle must, talk with women haram, islam rejection head cut off, assaultive-offensive jihad e.t.c e.t.c.

Look at 01:00 - 01:10 and 06:50 - 07:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQzuFrMRA3M
The guy strutters to validate or convince in a strong intellectually sound manner. If another scholar like Shaykh Murad was there he would probably eat away at the argument by providing evidence of scholars who dont believe apostasy deserves beheading.

Many of the beliefs of taliban also can be justified within the wider deobandi intellectual realm and daily modes of teachings of deobandies and these are all unappealing version calls of Islam in the west.
So what I am saying that these groups would be ineffective in their dawah to westerners.

Remember I am talking about effectiveness and am not antagonizing these other traditional groups and individuals or arguing about their invalidness. I think they should just give preference to other people who are better equipped to do the job and promote these rather than themselves in certain settings.
If on the other hand I was talking to Muslims I would tell them learn Iman, love, goodness, modernity, friendliness, intellectual pursuit and tolerance from Harun Yahya and traditional religious fiqh/ilm from Deobandis'.

09-04-2012, 03:56 AM	#4
Niobaralegra Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 453 Senior Member	What you are suggesting won't work. I personally find it dishonest to begin with, and besides, anyone with an internet connection can find out for himself what the shariah says about the murtad, or music, or dress codes. Once iman is there, obedience to ahkam should follow naturally. I wouldn't discount jihad as a means of dawah. for your opinion. No one is saying lie about issues to the Westerners but rather promote and make legitimate transition dawah groups and individuals who either believe in the validity of these things or who focus on only important things concerning Iman and love of Allah. For e.g I would argue that people like tahir-ul-qadri and harun yahya would probably be more effective in western settings than a traditional deobandi Alim or a traditional saudi-salafist for alluring the westerners to Islam. We should therefore promote the works of the former amongst the western audience. I would also say Abdul-hakim Murad, Suheib webb and all other more liberal leaning Muslims need to be supported. Its obvious Iman needs to emphasize first thats why I am saying this things. Now just imagine a person who is a general da'ee, one day he talks about love of Allah, the second about beheading apostates, the third about compassion in ISlam, the fourth about calling liberally dressed women prostitutes deserving of rape, the fifth about charity in Islam, the sixth about the curse of beethoven, taylor swift and any other clean musician. I hope you are getting my point. Rather talk everyday about Iman, compassion, tolerance, advancement, mental serentiy and avoid those topics or be liberal in them. I am tallking about effectiveness of dawah in Islam. I am saying if you believe in the conservative strain in Islam dont displace, deride, weaken the transitional da'ees if they are making an impact in the west. Call them proper legitimate muslims and limit antagonism to muslim circles and countries and argue against their opinions in a spirit of intellectualism or rather work to making your group the strongest in Islamic cultures if you really believe you are the best. But dont aim for being the best by being the most vocal to people who wont even listen to you or who perceive opinions as annoying brays in the first place. You will see most westerners commenting we dont want to go back to the 7th century or the desert because of all these peripheral opinions which Muslims in the west make -ban music, soccer, entertainment, make women niqabi, liberal women are whores, women in the home must, beard must, shirt-trouser haram, trouser above ankle must, talk with women haram, islam rejection head cut off, assaultive-offensive jihad e.t.c e.t.c. Look at 01:00 - 01:10 and 06:50 - 07:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQzuFrMRA3M The guy strutters to validate or convince in a strong intellectually sound manner. If another scholar like Shaykh Murad was there he would probably eat away at the argument by providing evidence of scholars who dont believe apostasy deserves beheading. Many of the beliefs of taliban also can be justified within the wider deobandi intellectual realm and daily modes of teachings of deobandies and these are all unappealing version calls of Islam in the west. So what I am saying that these groups would be ineffective in their dawah to westerners. Remember I am talking about effectiveness and am not antagonizing these other traditional groups and individuals or arguing about their invalidness. I think they should just give preference to other people who are better equipped to do the job and promote these rather than themselves in certain settings. If on the other hand I was talking to Muslims I would tell them learn Iman, love, goodness, modernity, friendliness, intellectual pursuit and tolerance from Harun Yahya and traditional religious fiqh/ilm from Deobandis'.
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