DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - The Great Deception

**Deribasov** · 09-04-2012, 02:57 AM

We shouldn't see it as criticism but thoughts built upon the reality.
Reality is that the Arab Spring (started as genuine protests against regimes) was quickly hijacked by the West, in particular US.
The US mobilised the Youth Movements which she created/funded herself. These movements were quickly mobilised by slogans such as freedom and democracy which all fit into the Greater Middle East Initiative (GMEI).

Just mere open general assertions that could apply to anyone who comes to power in Egypt. "We started it" "they hijacked it" "boo hoo""conspiracy theories". No matter who comes in power, one side will complain this way.

The GMEI was devised in 2004 after the US realised it's failure of creating a beacon of democracy in Iraq which they thought would lead to a domino affect throughtout the Middle East i.e. out with the old leaders and in with the new. The older Middleeast was declared as kafir anyway by the same people who complain today. So does it matter ? Do you want to go back to the time and live under Hosni Mubarak ?

As part of the GMEI the West along with those who promote her plans have been promoting the Turkish model of government which is nothing but a secular state. The struggle in Turkey today is between the government and the military where the military should play no part in politics leading to a civilian/democratic state. This is the same game being played in Egypt but with less success at the moment. The ones in power in Egypt today have declared that anything contrary to shariah is not going to be allowed. What else do you want ? Turkey is coming from a anti -religious secular background. That background should not be dragged along when someone praises the AKP's efforts, as the praise is for the positive efforts of AKP for Islam. Would you have done it better if you were in place of AKP's prior rise to power ?

Is it any surprIse that the US has welcomed and greeted the Ikhwaan and Mursi as rulers of Egypt? Its called diplomacy and foreign relations.

The likes of Mursi and Ganouchi appeal to the masses due to their Islamic rhetoric because as muslims our call is Islam but what they are doing has nothing to do with the Shariah.
Do you really think the US would allow a genuine Islamic leadership based upon the method of the Messenger? Do you think the Messenger (saw) and his noble companions would be pragmatic in their approach to Islam? Do you think the Messenger (saw) and his noble companions would honour and abide the agreements/treaties if they contradicted Islam?
There are many questions we need to ask and link Islam to the reality we live in and only then will we be able to see how the Ummah is being deceived with the plots and plans of the West. Mere empty assertions based on assumptions you havent proved and not in context. Its like me asking you as an argument against you : Do you think the companions would support shirk?
Obviously not. Which person in the world is incapable of understanding that ? No one. Then what wrong with my question ? my assertion of shirk upon you is first to be proved.
Secondly, the context. Applying shariah in Mecca is quite different from applying shariah in Madinah at the early stages of revelation.

I'm not arguing that evrything is perfect and status quo should be accepted. But this form of criticism built upon conspiracy theories, assumptions, speculative skepticism, unproved ideological assertions of a few, non-grounded upon reality of humans, false utopia, and arguments being built merely as a justification of ones own personal ideas is something I don't see any use in except spreading hopeless negativity and anarchist thought.

09-04-2012, 02:57 AM	#20
Deribasov Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 375 Senior Member	We shouldn't see it as criticism but thoughts built upon the reality. Reality is that the Arab Spring (started as genuine protests against regimes) was quickly hijacked by the West, in particular US. The US mobilised the Youth Movements which she created/funded herself. These movements were quickly mobilised by slogans such as freedom and democracy which all fit into the Greater Middle East Initiative (GMEI). Just mere open general assertions that could apply to anyone who comes to power in Egypt. "We started it" "they hijacked it" "boo hoo""conspiracy theories". No matter who comes in power, one side will complain this way. The GMEI was devised in 2004 after the US realised it's failure of creating a beacon of democracy in Iraq which they thought would lead to a domino affect throughtout the Middle East i.e. out with the old leaders and in with the new. The older Middleeast was declared as kafir anyway by the same people who complain today. So does it matter ? Do you want to go back to the time and live under Hosni Mubarak ? As part of the GMEI the West along with those who promote her plans have been promoting the Turkish model of government which is nothing but a secular state. The struggle in Turkey today is between the government and the military where the military should play no part in politics leading to a civilian/democratic state. This is the same game being played in Egypt but with less success at the moment. The ones in power in Egypt today have declared that anything contrary to shariah is not going to be allowed. What else do you want ? Turkey is coming from a anti -religious secular background. That background should not be dragged along when someone praises the AKP's efforts, as the praise is for the positive efforts of AKP for Islam. Would you have done it better if you were in place of AKP's prior rise to power ? Is it any surprIse that the US has welcomed and greeted the Ikhwaan and Mursi as rulers of Egypt? Its called diplomacy and foreign relations. The likes of Mursi and Ganouchi appeal to the masses due to their Islamic rhetoric because as muslims our call is Islam but what they are doing has nothing to do with the Shariah. Do you really think the US would allow a genuine Islamic leadership based upon the method of the Messenger? Do you think the Messenger (saw) and his noble companions would be pragmatic in their approach to Islam? Do you think the Messenger (saw) and his noble companions would honour and abide the agreements/treaties if they contradicted Islam? There are many questions we need to ask and link Islam to the reality we live in and only then will we be able to see how the Ummah is being deceived with the plots and plans of the West. Mere empty assertions based on assumptions you havent proved and not in context. Its like me asking you as an argument against you : Do you think the companions would support shirk? Obviously not. Which person in the world is incapable of understanding that ? No one. Then what wrong with my question ? my assertion of shirk upon you is first to be proved. Secondly, the context. Applying shariah in Mecca is quite different from applying shariah in Madinah at the early stages of revelation. I'm not arguing that evrything is perfect and status quo should be accepted. But this form of criticism built upon conspiracy theories, assumptions, speculative skepticism, unproved ideological assertions of a few, non-grounded upon reality of humans, false utopia, and arguments being built merely as a justification of ones own personal ideas is something I don't see any use in except spreading hopeless negativity and anarchist thought.
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