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**JosephNF** · 09-04-2012, 03:57 AM

Define secular and how Morsi fits it, such that it is opposed to bringing Muslims to the religion.

any portion of the constitution that goes against islamic laws is a secular law. a government may be bringing in islam gradually to the constitution but that government does so by taking time to change unislamic laws. it does not make new unislamic laws and say this is islam. as proof the post below mine has given some examples. i have further proofs by morsi's govt that show they are clearly secular and not gradualists.

That is equivalent to saying you need religion to bring people to religion. That is obvious. How do you bring religion to someone who is non-religious ? How to establsih islam at a state level when in prior it is not? Its circular to bring islam to something that's already islam. Bringing islam assumes the prior absence of it at whatever level its being brought.

tableegh and armed struggle. this is how islam was spread by the Holy prophet (PBUH). you have to break the worldview of the west.

Your assuming what America will allow and will not allow. Secondly, your assuming MB is doing something unislamic because of being forced by America. And plenty of similar assumptions.

no this is what United States has done over the years. this is not an assumption: 'have control over muslim governments'. why were libya and iraq attacked? do you know why US insists strongly everyone trade in US dollar? why did the US insist on democracy in muslim lands whose mujahideen they had helped against soviets? why did US insisted on democracy in pakistan and brought secular parties in pakistan to the fore at height of TTP war with NATO and pakistan army? if you do not believe or think they are assumptions this then you are missing some vital knowledge on these matters. of course MB will bring american version of islam. even if, lets say by some miracle they do impose a constitution that is almost shariah then they will still be stooges of US like saudia.

talking about so-called assumptions you yourself and the MB apologists make huge assumptions about what MB may or may not do w/o looking at what they are actually doing.

When does your opinion matter ?
Lets say your born in that 60% secularized country. What would you do alternate to MB, by which you would bring shariah to the people.

your opinion matters when you are a scholar fit to speak about islam.
i have given my answer: one should support those movements that emulate the example of the Prophet (PBUH) and his companions: tableegh and armed struggle. look at how many battles were fought between the Holy prophet (PBUH)' s coming to madinah and then conquest of makkah.

you can disagree with all of the above but i suggest you read fiqh of war so that you understand how armed struggle in islam is different from armed struggle of the kuffar. this way anyone who picks up arms for the name of islam will not seem like a terrorist to you.

09-04-2012, 03:57 AM	#26
JosephNF Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 441 Senior Member	Define secular and how Morsi fits it, such that it is opposed to bringing Muslims to the religion. any portion of the constitution that goes against islamic laws is a secular law. a government may be bringing in islam gradually to the constitution but that government does so by taking time to change unislamic laws. it does not make new unislamic laws and say this is islam. as proof the post below mine has given some examples. i have further proofs by morsi's govt that show they are clearly secular and not gradualists. That is equivalent to saying you need religion to bring people to religion. That is obvious. How do you bring religion to someone who is non-religious ? How to establsih islam at a state level when in prior it is not? Its circular to bring islam to something that's already islam. Bringing islam assumes the prior absence of it at whatever level its being brought. tableegh and armed struggle. this is how islam was spread by the Holy prophet (PBUH). you have to break the worldview of the west. Your assuming what America will allow and will not allow. Secondly, your assuming MB is doing something unislamic because of being forced by America. And plenty of similar assumptions. no this is what United States has done over the years. this is not an assumption: 'have control over muslim governments'. why were libya and iraq attacked? do you know why US insists strongly everyone trade in US dollar? why did the US insist on democracy in muslim lands whose mujahideen they had helped against soviets? why did US insisted on democracy in pakistan and brought secular parties in pakistan to the fore at height of TTP war with NATO and pakistan army? if you do not believe or think they are assumptions this then you are missing some vital knowledge on these matters. of course MB will bring american version of islam. even if, lets say by some miracle they do impose a constitution that is almost shariah then they will still be stooges of US like saudia. talking about so-called assumptions you yourself and the MB apologists make huge assumptions about what MB may or may not do w/o looking at what they are actually doing. When does your opinion matter ? Lets say your born in that 60% secularized country. What would you do alternate to MB, by which you would bring shariah to the people. your opinion matters when you are a scholar fit to speak about islam. i have given my answer: one should support those movements that emulate the example of the Prophet (PBUH) and his companions: tableegh and armed struggle. look at how many battles were fought between the Holy prophet (PBUH)' s coming to madinah and then conquest of makkah. you can disagree with all of the above but i suggest you read fiqh of war so that you understand how armed struggle in islam is different from armed struggle of the kuffar. this way anyone who picks up arms for the name of islam will not seem like a terrorist to you.
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