DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - The Islamic 'state' an oxymoron (contradiction in terms)

**ashleyjoseph** · 09-04-2012, 03:57 AM

its up to the people involved in any situation to decide for themselves knowing the context as much as possible. We cannot have one rule for all places. However i heard a bayan where the shaykh was saying that the rasul In the early days was not angry with a bedoin who urinated in the masjid...years later he was very angry at a man who spat on the outside of the masjid wall. This means in the early days the rasul Knew that the people were close to jihala and could be excused.

i do not agree with the first two sentences you wrote.

you see there is a limit to individual reform that the preachers can hope for with their preaching. there has to be action by the muslim government. i am not saying the preaching has limits. what i am saying is that the society needs to have laws that shun evil and encourage goods in addition to people who do it. for example a man attends a good bayan in masjid and when he goes out he runs into a group of young scantily clad modern women. ofcourse he turns his gaze away.
now let us repeat that hundred times over the course of 6 months. even though this brother is struggling hard to preserve his deen the exposure to fahisha that he is subjected to because the hijab law isnt promulgate dby the government means his emaan is decreasing.
soon he will turn to pornography - and the govt again has not banned it.
and then his emaan will spiral downwards.

and this is just one small example. the man could get perverse by hundred other things. but shariah makes sure as many doors as physically possible can be closed upon wrongs in society, commerce, culture, economy, govt etc.

my actual question was in regards to what you said after your first sentences about what you heard in the bayan. yes, outreach is important. till then perhaps some wrongs in society can be excused. but till how long? few years? decades?

09-04-2012, 03:57 AM	#24
ashleyjoseph Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 433 Senior Member	its up to the people involved in any situation to decide for themselves knowing the context as much as possible. We cannot have one rule for all places. However i heard a bayan where the shaykh was saying that the rasul In the early days was not angry with a bedoin who urinated in the masjid...years later he was very angry at a man who spat on the outside of the masjid wall. This means in the early days the rasul Knew that the people were close to jihala and could be excused. i do not agree with the first two sentences you wrote. you see there is a limit to individual reform that the preachers can hope for with their preaching. there has to be action by the muslim government. i am not saying the preaching has limits. what i am saying is that the society needs to have laws that shun evil and encourage goods in addition to people who do it. for example a man attends a good bayan in masjid and when he goes out he runs into a group of young scantily clad modern women. ofcourse he turns his gaze away. now let us repeat that hundred times over the course of 6 months. even though this brother is struggling hard to preserve his deen the exposure to fahisha that he is subjected to because the hijab law isnt promulgate dby the government means his emaan is decreasing. soon he will turn to pornography - and the govt again has not banned it. and then his emaan will spiral downwards. and this is just one small example. the man could get perverse by hundred other things. but shariah makes sure as many doors as physically possible can be closed upon wrongs in society, commerce, culture, economy, govt etc. my actual question was in regards to what you said after your first sentences about what you heard in the bayan. yes, outreach is important. till then perhaps some wrongs in society can be excused. but till how long? few years? decades?
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