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**TZids16I** · 06-27-2010, 09:03 AM

Q: Ethiopia = Tigray - Amhara regions? Are you aware of the fact that Sheikh Hussein the most prominent saint amongst Ethiopian muslims came from Merka, Southern Somalia?, or the multiple caravans that left medieval Southeast-Ethiopia for the ports in Southern Somalia?

Nonsense, the word 'colonization' can't even be used to describe Somalia's brief period of foreign occupation:

"The Italians never succeeded in their attempted role of colonial masters. They were sometimes perceived as allies (by the Geledi in their fight with the Biimaal) and sometimes as enemies (by Maxamad Cabdille Xasan and his Dervishes), but rarely were they seen as masters. The love-hate relationship, so often present between colonized and colonizer, seemed not to occur in the Somali case. -
Politics, language, and thought: the Somali experience - Page 68

There was no such thing as an independent ''Somaliland'' state, it had no distinct flag(actually the Somali blue flag was first hosted there), no parliament etc. This is as absurd as saying one half of Morocco was an independent state because it had to wait for the other half to receive it's independence. Northern Somali representatives had already agreed to a union even before the protectorate achieved independence:

In February 1960 a Legislative council was elected by Universal adult male suffrage. On April 6 this council unaninamously passed a resolution stating its desires to recieve independence before 1 july, so that the country could be united with Somalia when it became independent -Encyclopedia Americana pg 251

As for the current entity of Somaliland and it's wish to secede, that's a tricky situation considering 40% of the territory claimed by Riyaale's government are die-hard Unionists, not to forget how the Awdal region is currently governed by it's own council and does not feel the need to secede from Somalia, but instead waits for stability to return, forcing them into a seccession could prolong or ignite a war in a relatively peaceful part of the country.

And from the South to the North, this was not a one-time phenomena.

Indeed Hargeisa Radio was a pioneer, as was the Hargeisa theatre, yet why do some of our folk from that part of the region pretend they had no influence in the South, when your supremacist post is showing the opposite?

I never denied that cultural influences went both ways.

I already stated that union with the south was an idea that was coined in Northern Somalia first. Back then a united Somalia was so desirable that people were willing to concede everything to their southern neighbours. Italian was made an official language, although not a single person from former British Somaliland spoke it, which meant most of the government and civilian posts went to folks from the south. Mogadishu was chosen as a capital without any questions raised, academic instituitions were all placed in the south, without any questions being raised.

I realize that Somaliland did not have it's own flag...afterall, the Blue flag of Somalia was invented by a man from Somaliland. Why would they have their own flag, parliament or anything along that matter when they were pushing for unification with the south? My point was never to deny this, rather, my point is that this pan-Somalism was misguided and came from an altruistic hope for things to come. However the following decades and in particular the last years of Siad Barre's regime changed all that forever.

During the Second World War, Britain occupied Italian Somaliland and administered the territory from 1941 to 1950. It was during this period (1943) that the Somali Youth League (SYL) was formed. The SYL succeeded in uniting all Somali clans under its flag and led the country to independence. Faced with growing Italian political pressure inimical to continued British tenure and to Somali aspirations for independence, the Somalis and the British came to see each other as allies. The situation prompted British colonial officials to encourage the Somalis to organize politically; the result was the first modern Somali political party, the Somali Youth Club (SYC), established in Mogadishu in 1943.
The Somali Youth League monument in Mogadishu.

To empower the new party, the better educated police and civil servants were permitted to join it. In 1947, it renamed itself the Somali Youth League (SYL) and began to open offices not only in Italian and British Somaliland, but also in the Ogaden and in the Northern Frontier District (NFD). The SYL's stated objectives were to unify all Somali territories, including the NFD and the Ogaden; to create opportunities for universal modern education; to develop the Somali language by a standard national orthography; to safeguard Somali interests; and to oppose the restoration of Italian rule. SYL policy banned clannishness so that the thirteen founding members, although representing four of Somalia's five major clans, refused to disclose their clan affiliations. Although the SYL enjoyed considerable popular support from northerners, the principal parties in British Somaliland were the Somali National League (SNL), mainly associated with the Isaaq clan, and the United Somali Party (USP), which had the support of the Dir (Gadabuursi and Issa) and Darod (Dulbahante and Warsangali) clans.

In 1945, the Potsdam conference was held, where it was decided not to return Italian Somaliland to Italy.[1] The United Nations opted instead in November 1949 to grant Italy trusteeship of Italian Somaliland, but only under close supervision and on the condition -- first proposed by the SYL and other nascent Somali political organizations, such as Marehan Union Party, Hizbia Digil Mirifle Somali (HDMS) (which later became Hizbia Dastur Mustaqbal Somali) and the SNL, that were then agitating for independence -- that Somalia achieve independence within ten years.[2][3]

British Somaliland remained a protectorate of Britain until June 26, 1960, when it became independent. The former Italian Somaliland followed suit five days later.[4] On July 1, 1960, the two territories united to form the Somali Republic, albeit within boundaries drawn up by Italy and Britain.[5][6][7] A government was formed by Abdullahi Issa with Aden Abdullah Osman Daar as President,[8][9][10] and Abdirashid Ali Shermarke as Prime Minister, later to become President (from 1967-1969). On July 20, 1961 and through a popular referendum, the Somali people ratified a new constitution, which was first drafted in 1960.[11]
Lastly, that the non-Isaaq groups in Somaliland are obviously not as enthusiastic about secession to me, is proof of their clannish mindsets ("we will rather wait and stick it out, who knows maybe shit will get better in the south, although we already have a peaceful functioning country right now in Somaliland") and interests more than anything. I'm just glad that for the most part, Somaliland did not act like the paranoid and warmongering nation it could have been and instead, let them be.

Riyale's politics dont matter that much to me, the moment he attempts to hint at unionist tendencies, he will be kicked to the curb, if even after he wins the elections.

06-27-2010, 09:03 AM	#27
TZids16I Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 448 Senior Member	Q: Ethiopia = Tigray - Amhara regions? Are you aware of the fact that Sheikh Hussein the most prominent saint amongst Ethiopian muslims came from Merka, Southern Somalia?, or the multiple caravans that left medieval Southeast-Ethiopia for the ports in Southern Somalia? Nonsense, the word 'colonization' can't even be used to describe Somalia's brief period of foreign occupation: "The Italians never succeeded in their attempted role of colonial masters. They were sometimes perceived as allies (by the Geledi in their fight with the Biimaal) and sometimes as enemies (by Maxamad Cabdille Xasan and his Dervishes), but rarely were they seen as masters. The love-hate relationship, so often present between colonized and colonizer, seemed not to occur in the Somali case. - Politics, language, and thought: the Somali experience - Page 68 There was no such thing as an independent ''Somaliland'' state, it had no distinct flag(actually the Somali blue flag was first hosted there), no parliament etc. This is as absurd as saying one half of Morocco was an independent state because it had to wait for the other half to receive it's independence. Northern Somali representatives had already agreed to a union even before the protectorate achieved independence: In February 1960 a Legislative council was elected by Universal adult male suffrage. On April 6 this council unaninamously passed a resolution stating its desires to recieve independence before 1 july, so that the country could be united with Somalia when it became independent -Encyclopedia Americana pg 251 As for the current entity of Somaliland and it's wish to secede, that's a tricky situation considering 40% of the territory claimed by Riyaale's government are die-hard Unionists, not to forget how the Awdal region is currently governed by it's own council and does not feel the need to secede from Somalia, but instead waits for stability to return, forcing them into a seccession could prolong or ignite a war in a relatively peaceful part of the country. And from the South to the North, this was not a one-time phenomena. Indeed Hargeisa Radio was a pioneer, as was the Hargeisa theatre, yet why do some of our folk from that part of the region pretend they had no influence in the South, when your supremacist post is showing the opposite? I never denied that cultural influences went both ways. I already stated that union with the south was an idea that was coined in Northern Somalia first. Back then a united Somalia was so desirable that people were willing to concede everything to their southern neighbours. Italian was made an official language, although not a single person from former British Somaliland spoke it, which meant most of the government and civilian posts went to folks from the south. Mogadishu was chosen as a capital without any questions raised, academic instituitions were all placed in the south, without any questions being raised. I realize that Somaliland did not have it's own flag...afterall, the Blue flag of Somalia was invented by a man from Somaliland. Why would they have their own flag, parliament or anything along that matter when they were pushing for unification with the south? My point was never to deny this, rather, my point is that this pan-Somalism was misguided and came from an altruistic hope for things to come. However the following decades and in particular the last years of Siad Barre's regime changed all that forever. During the Second World War, Britain occupied Italian Somaliland and administered the territory from 1941 to 1950. It was during this period (1943) that the Somali Youth League (SYL) was formed. The SYL succeeded in uniting all Somali clans under its flag and led the country to independence. Faced with growing Italian political pressure inimical to continued British tenure and to Somali aspirations for independence, the Somalis and the British came to see each other as allies. The situation prompted British colonial officials to encourage the Somalis to organize politically; the result was the first modern Somali political party, the Somali Youth Club (SYC), established in Mogadishu in 1943. The Somali Youth League monument in Mogadishu. To empower the new party, the better educated police and civil servants were permitted to join it. In 1947, it renamed itself the Somali Youth League (SYL) and began to open offices not only in Italian and British Somaliland, but also in the Ogaden and in the Northern Frontier District (NFD). The SYL's stated objectives were to unify all Somali territories, including the NFD and the Ogaden; to create opportunities for universal modern education; to develop the Somali language by a standard national orthography; to safeguard Somali interests; and to oppose the restoration of Italian rule. SYL policy banned clannishness so that the thirteen founding members, although representing four of Somalia's five major clans, refused to disclose their clan affiliations. Although the SYL enjoyed considerable popular support from northerners, the principal parties in British Somaliland were the Somali National League (SNL), mainly associated with the Isaaq clan, and the United Somali Party (USP), which had the support of the Dir (Gadabuursi and Issa) and Darod (Dulbahante and Warsangali) clans. In 1945, the Potsdam conference was held, where it was decided not to return Italian Somaliland to Italy.[1] The United Nations opted instead in November 1949 to grant Italy trusteeship of Italian Somaliland, but only under close supervision and on the condition -- first proposed by the SYL and other nascent Somali political organizations, such as Marehan Union Party, Hizbia Digil Mirifle Somali (HDMS) (which later became Hizbia Dastur Mustaqbal Somali) and the SNL, that were then agitating for independence -- that Somalia achieve independence within ten years.[2][3] British Somaliland remained a protectorate of Britain until June 26, 1960, when it became independent. The former Italian Somaliland followed suit five days later.[4] On July 1, 1960, the two territories united to form the Somali Republic, albeit within boundaries drawn up by Italy and Britain.[5][6][7] A government was formed by Abdullahi Issa with Aden Abdullah Osman Daar as President,[8][9][10] and Abdirashid Ali Shermarke as Prime Minister, later to become President (from 1967-1969). On July 20, 1961 and through a popular referendum, the Somali people ratified a new constitution, which was first drafted in 1960.[11] Lastly, that the non-Isaaq groups in Somaliland are obviously not as enthusiastic about secession to me, is proof of their clannish mindsets ("we will rather wait and stick it out, who knows maybe shit will get better in the south, although we already have a peaceful functioning country right now in Somaliland") and interests more than anything. I'm just glad that for the most part, Somaliland did not act like the paranoid and warmongering nation it could have been and instead, let them be. Riyale's politics dont matter that much to me, the moment he attempts to hint at unionist tendencies, he will be kicked to the curb, if even after he wins the elections.
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