[RaicickKida]

you want us to be patient agaisnt out leaders or are clearly opressive, not following the quran and sunnah and blatantly not commiting injustice after injustice?. those who do not judge by what allah has revealed are the unbelivers. are those those who befriend the jews and christians and seek help from them, not commiting kufr? those who allow the kufar into the holy land to wage war against muslim countries. you want us to simply remain patient? does allah not say that allah will not help the people until they help themselves first?

regarding your statement, those who do not judge by what allah has revealed are the unbelivers. are those those who befriend the jews and christians and seek help from them, not commiting kufr? Can you declare openly, which of the current leaders of the Muslim nations are clear cut kufr from what you're quoting (the one that I underlined)?

Nowhere does it say we need to be patient against our leaders just because some weak hadith (made up by the unjust rulers in the past for themselves to justify their position) tells us not to rise up until they commit open kufr. If that is the case, then imam hussain (r.a) should not have risen up against yazid.

There are two issues here;

1) Weak hadith. Do you have a clear textual reference that you can back it up? If so, please share it with all the members here.
2) imam hussain (r.a) and yazid. Are we in the same situation as Imam Hussain ? You should also realize that Yazid massacred the Muslims in the two blessed cities. Are we in that situation now to draw that parallel?

Since the saudis and the usa/israel know your and most other muslims mentallity and know this hadith exists, they can then setup any hypocriyte in disguise to rule the holy lands and call himself a muslim but all he has to do is not commit open kufr and they know you can't uprise against that ruler and have to just remain patient. so they will continue to use that hadith all the time, setting up one ruler after another and know you CAN'T uprise agaisnt them until they are commiting open kufr as you claim.

brother, we can't speculate something we don't know. Regardless if the leaders will use the hadith to their advantage or not (Gaddafi did use the hadith against the rebels), their actions speak louder than what they declare. If the leaders really gave their efforts to implement sharia law as commanded in the Quran and shown by the Prophet , then the people would know that the leaders were sincere when quoting the hadith. But one thing for sure we can't judge the grey areas if we don't have full knowledge of what actually happened.

You need to get fact right here. We have extremists on both sides here. i can quote you lots of high ranking shia scholars who consider sunnis are brothers. dont tell me that they are ALL lying about this. also there our sunni alims who see shia's as non-beleivers to and they would love to nuke iran. you have to be fair brother and look at it from a neutral angle and not to let prejudice get in the way.

Again, actions speak louder than words. If so, perhaps the high ranking shia scholars can at least allow the suunis in Tehran for example, to build sunni mosques? I'm sure you do know that currently in Tehran alone there are over 100 mosques, and none of them is a sunni mosque.

this time will NEVER come unless you change you thinking and attitude. you can be in dream land for 100's of years to come and the situation will not change as my comments show above and stop falling for this zionist/wahabi agenda. may allah guide us all.

You have to differentiate between being cautious and dreaming. Since there are many fitna nowadays as foretold by the Prophet , then every Muslim should be cautious as to when to rise up in a violent struggle. There are a few factors in that (among others);
1) We are given a chance to live just once on this Earth, so we have to make sure that when we wage jihad, the jihad is a valid one. For example, every scholar and Muslim agree that the wars in Afghanistan and Chechnya among other places are jihad. If the shaaria law can be implemented without a necessary arm struggle, then we should pursue that course (for example, maybe in Egypt? - ).

2) If every of us would resort to violence everytime we dislike a ruler, there would be chaos especially within tribal society which is prevalent in the Arab communities. A hadith of not to resort to violence unless a ruler is a clear cut kufr has so many hikmah in this regard.


Allah Knows best.