DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Political direction of the country possibly in flux?

**iNYZgxNC** · 01-29-2012, 04:16 PM

I've been looking over some poll numbers from various places.. Just kind of amazed that Obama's numbers are as high as they are, and I've seen some surprisingly strong support for a democrat congress too. I think these numbers should be in the tank, but they aren't...

Here's a general purpose, NBC/WSJ poll that's kind of interesting on the Congressional issue. (Q 10-13)

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Se...BCWSJfinal.pdf

There's also an interesting PEW research study here:

http://www.people-press.org/2012/01/...cy-priorities/

A highlight:

Note the support for securing entitlements.. Even over such things like the military.

This isn't a fluke.. Because I can't find support for seriously curtailing entitlements anywhere.. and I've been looking for a while.

This article is from 2011, but it's completely illustrative.. Google will turn up hundreds just like it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...Tabs%3Darticle

I wonder if the GOP making noise about going after entitlements isn't going to end up driving boomers to the left?

Republican voters want their entitlements secured. Period.. Even 71% Republicans want SS secured. (A higher number than even the Independents, btw) Over half feel the same way about Medicare.. (A number ALSO higher than the independents) Which still scores higher than strengthening the Military and dealing with illegal immigration. (I wonder if the boomers, being old and out of the work force, just see a bunch of cheap gardeners?) or dealing with our energy problem.

The boomers are a pampered bunch who want what they want, and they've got the power to get it.. even at our collective expense.. I wonder what will happen if the GOP begins to cut these programs and they push back? After all, the attitude I've heard from most of them is "I worked hard and payed a fortune in taxes! I want mah medicare!!!"

Threaten that and I'll bet you shove them right into the independent camp.. Or worse, straight across the isle into the arms of the democrats.

They're old, they don't give a shit about anything but themselves and they want their benefits..

Thoughts?

PS: Unrelated but interesting.. Registered voters trust the Republican candidates over Obama to fight corruption (Which they believe is a problem) but the party as a whole fares poorly.. Probably because they don't seem to much give a shit about it one way or the other.

http://biggovernment.com/tfitton/201...s/#more-415200

Whenever this subject comes up here all I get from Paulians and others who consider themselves puritan Conservatives is "you were stupid to believe the govt", "the money is gone, so tough shit", "SS and Medicare are unconstitutional so you're a liberal for wanting to receive bennies".

Those arguments might go over well here with some, but they aren't going anywhere in an election and even Ron Paul knows it.
The government indeed led us down a dead end street with these programs and we are getting close to the end now. But most Americans have experienced with their own families how these programs helped loved ones. To suggest these programs disappear cold turkey and "Oh well, the rest of you are fucked" isn't a conservative opinion either imo. It basically acknowledges the government can fuck its people any time it wants.

A better option, and one I haven't heard in great detail is to let these programs disolve over time. A 65 year old probably doesn't have the time or resources to catch up to a lifetime of saving. But a 25 year old does. We need a detailed plan that allows the public to see a more profitable option. It's not specifically MY demand because I have other retirement savings. But it's one you need to win people over. But if it doesn't appear to be better than what they have now, you lose.

When SS was created we didn't have the miriad of options to invest in such as 401k's and IRA's and CD's etc. SS should be the easiest to kill and win the people over on it.
Medicare will be a tough fight because the health care system is so fucking confusing and expensive, very few can explain it well enough to make a sensible argument.

01-29-2012, 04:16 PM	#10
iNYZgxNC Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 466 Senior Member	I've been looking over some poll numbers from various places.. Just kind of amazed that Obama's numbers are as high as they are, and I've seen some surprisingly strong support for a democrat congress too. I think these numbers should be in the tank, but they aren't... Here's a general purpose, NBC/WSJ poll that's kind of interesting on the Congressional issue. (Q 10-13) http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Se...BCWSJfinal.pdf There's also an interesting PEW research study here: http://www.people-press.org/2012/01/...cy-priorities/ A highlight: Note the support for securing entitlements.. Even over such things like the military. This isn't a fluke.. Because I can't find support for seriously curtailing entitlements anywhere.. and I've been looking for a while. This article is from 2011, but it's completely illustrative.. Google will turn up hundreds just like it. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...Tabs%3Darticle I wonder if the GOP making noise about going after entitlements isn't going to end up driving boomers to the left? Republican voters want their entitlements secured. Period.. Even 71% Republicans want SS secured. (A higher number than even the Independents, btw) Over half feel the same way about Medicare.. (A number ALSO higher than the independents) Which still scores higher than strengthening the Military and dealing with illegal immigration. (I wonder if the boomers, being old and out of the work force, just see a bunch of cheap gardeners?) or dealing with our energy problem. The boomers are a pampered bunch who want what they want, and they've got the power to get it.. even at our collective expense.. I wonder what will happen if the GOP begins to cut these programs and they push back? After all, the attitude I've heard from most of them is "I worked hard and payed a fortune in taxes! I want mah medicare!!!" Threaten that and I'll bet you shove them right into the independent camp.. Or worse, straight across the isle into the arms of the democrats. They're old, they don't give a shit about anything but themselves and they want their benefits.. Thoughts? PS: Unrelated but interesting.. Registered voters trust the Republican candidates over Obama to fight corruption (Which they believe is a problem) but the party as a whole fares poorly.. Probably because they don't seem to much give a shit about it one way or the other. http://biggovernment.com/tfitton/201...s/#more-415200 Whenever this subject comes up here all I get from Paulians and others who consider themselves puritan Conservatives is "you were stupid to believe the govt", "the money is gone, so tough shit", "SS and Medicare are unconstitutional so you're a liberal for wanting to receive bennies". Those arguments might go over well here with some, but they aren't going anywhere in an election and even Ron Paul knows it. The government indeed led us down a dead end street with these programs and we are getting close to the end now. But most Americans have experienced with their own families how these programs helped loved ones. To suggest these programs disappear cold turkey and "Oh well, the rest of you are fucked" isn't a conservative opinion either imo. It basically acknowledges the government can fuck its people any time it wants. A better option, and one I haven't heard in great detail is to let these programs disolve over time. A 65 year old probably doesn't have the time or resources to catch up to a lifetime of saving. But a 25 year old does. We need a detailed plan that allows the public to see a more profitable option. It's not specifically MY demand because I have other retirement savings. But it's one you need to win people over. But if it doesn't appear to be better than what they have now, you lose. When SS was created we didn't have the miriad of options to invest in such as 401k's and IRA's and CD's etc. SS should be the easiest to kill and win the people over on it. Medicare will be a tough fight because the health care system is so fucking confusing and expensive, very few can explain it well enough to make a sensible argument.
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