[StivRichardOff]

So I got into a pretty interesting debate with a liberal who then called in a few of his friends for back up. Heres the text:

Liberal 1- ‎"The American people are about to give Republicans a second chance that we know we don’t deserve, that we haven’t earned. … The American people have every right, and every reason, to blame a Republican president and a Republican Congress for the mess that confronted the Obama administration on January 20, 2009 — let us be honest be about this," -- Congressman Tom McClintock (R-CA).

Me- The blame Bush excuse has gotten old. Why do you think democrats are about to lose the midterms? Let me guess: Americans are stupid right? And someone ask Mr McClintock who had control of congress when the shit hit the fan.
Liberal 1- This was a Republican congressman, not a Democrat.

It is literally impossible to blame Obama's policies for the current economy ... if for no other reason then he's only been President for 2 years! The economic collapse is not Bush's fault ...alone - and there are Democrats to blame too - but to parade around like the stimulus, health care, and financial reform are ALREADY bringing this country down is just bullshit. Most GOP candidates are running on that platform and I'm glad to see some people in the party are willing to be adults about.

I'll let Congressman McClintock do the talking for me on this one

I also agree that "Blame Bush" is not a responsible mantra for Democrats. We're in office and so we have to be responsible. But we can't run away from the fact that Obama inherited an economy in free fall, and while it's bleeding has been... staunched, there's still a lot to do.

Republicans have offered no major policy initiatives and instead run around screaming "THE DEFICIT!" like chicken little without giving specifics on how to fix the problem.

It's appealing to the lowest instinct of the American voter: fear.

Me- Its not fear ****, its anger. A LOT of anger. Maybe if you would actually listen to the people instead of just calling them tea baggers you might learn something.

Liberal 1- I do listen, buddy. I've got some of those angry voters in my own family and circle of friends. I've listened to you!

Anger is not a very useful democratic emotion unless it's tempered with rationale solutions. I haven't seen that coming ...from the GOP, but they know they have the anger on their side because the White House is occupied by a Democrat. It's that simple.

Me- To a certain extent yes. And this anger wasnt something that just developed over night. This is a boiling point thats been reached after DECADES of terrible policies and government overreaching. Americans are FINALLY fed up with congress...men and senators acting as if theyre above the consititution, giving themselves the authority to pass whatever they want. People really are angry about the amount of spending the current administration is doing, and yes theyre afraid of the consequences. Our anger has merit and the administration and liberals in congress and in the media, and even you have done nothing but snicker and laugh at how stupid those people are.
And I cant speak for others but I can speak for myself when I say that I will keep my representatives on a VERY short leash after election day. Regardless of political party, if they dont strictly adhere to the guidelines established in the constitution, theyre fired.

Liberal 1- I agree whole heartedly on being "fed up with congressmen and senators acting as if theyre above the consititution, giving themselves the authority to pass whatever they want." Undoubtedly we disagree on the scope of what the federal gover...nment has the power to do, but I think we can both agree that neither party have been angelic stewards of the federal budget.

The anger of the masses do have merit and I don't think that the administration or I "snicker and laugh" and how stupid people are. I'm more disturbed and startled by how many of these people don't have a grasp on what is actually happening.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the Republican Party have played their A Game when it comes to using this anger to their advantage. In the process they have brought the federal government to a halt at a time when it should be working on OVERDRIVE in order to get the economy moving again. Then they turn around and throw out buzz words like "tax and spend" or "deficit cuts" without any specifics in the hope that it will make President Obama go away.

Right now I find national Democrats to be somewhat spineless, but I find national Republicans to be straight up childish and undeserving of access to the levers of power.

What a system we've got! No wonder I'm not enthused about this election.

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Liberal 2- Here here, liberal 1.

Liberal 2-Shut up ***

Me- There should be no disagreement as to the scope of the federal governments power. Its all in black and white, article 1 section 8, and the 10th amendment explain everything the government is authorized to do. Beyond that congressman, senators, and the president have zero authority.

Liberal 2- ***** - You are omitting the 3rd branch of government. The courts have interpreted the law and the Constitution as they are afforded and intended to do by the Constitution. It's a complex world, and rarely are black and white solutions suitable. That's why the Constitution's design as a living document was such a brilliant creation

Me- And thus, the left right divide reveals itself. The constitution was never designed as a living breathing document. The constitution is the supreme law of the land, not open to the interpretation of the courts. The judiciary is just as much a servant of the constitution as the legislative.

Liberal 3- It's easy for a white male to say the Constitution isn't a living document.

Me- Liberal 3 thats racist.

Liberal 2- If it was not designed as such, why is there an amendment process? Do you think we should be living under the Constitution as written in the 18th century?

I agree that the judiciary is a servant of the Constitution and that the Constitution ...is the Supreme Law of the Land as clearly outlined, superseding all federal and state law. When there is a conflict between said laws and the Constitution, the Supreme Court must make the call. Would that not inherently mean that they must interpret how the Constitution applies to the situation?

Me- The amendment process is the ONLY method in which things can be changed. Beyond that, the constitution is to be STRICTLY adhered to. The reason the government doesnt like the amendment process is because its slow and difficult as it was intended to be. So they side step the process with sweeping bills that encompass a broad spectrum like healthcare or cap and trade. Short of a constitutional amendment, those bills should have been snagged by the 10th amendment.

Liberal 1- I cannot imagine fighting and dying for a country who's constitution was so rigid that it did not allow for the ebb and flow of time to perfect itself.

The constitution is not the 10 Commandments, written in stone, forever to stay as they we...re when the ink dried. Why? It was written by man. Men who understood that time changes thought, culture, and inevitably law. The sheer fact that the judiciary exists as a third branch of government tells you that our founders were keenly aware of this necessity.

Additionally, much of the constitution was written in purposely vague language. The right to privacy. The right to free speech. It sounds final and brilliant, but you and I both know that those statements are subject to any number of circumstances. Only through judicial review can we truly flesh out those subjects.

I am thankful that I live in a country where we have a court system that has enough of a backbone to stand up to Jim Crow and Proposition 8. Of course, today's liberal is tomorrow's conservative and I'm certain we'll see this debate continue for decades to come.

Me- As I said before. The amendment process is the ONLY process the constitution can be changed. Beyond that, it IS rigid and IS the ten commandments of the United States. If you believe that the constitution is wrong, write your congressman... and suggest a new amendment. That is the correct process, not ramming sweeping legislation down the throats of the American people. That is a blatant misuse of governments limited authority. If you believe that gays should marry, suggest a constitutional amendment. If not, then leave it up to the individual states to decide for themselves. Its just that simple.