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**kranskregyan** · 08-26-2009, 01:13 AM

No good reason?

Israel is a state. Palestine is not. That's for starters. Second, Israel loudly proclaims how wonderful it is, how it's a democracy surrounded by authoritarian monstrosities, etc. If you climb up on top of a mountain and proclaim your moral superiority, you're going to be held to a higher standard, and rightly so. Same with us. The US routinely criticizes other governments for torture and such. But when we do it, suddenly it's fine (or it's "not really torture" or whatever other bullshit excuse we choose to cling to).

This is the basic issue, really: you cannot simultaneously proclaim that you're the "good guys" and all that (greatest nation on earth!!!1111!!!) whilst doing the very things the "bad guys" are doing, for which you label them bad guys. It doesn't pass a basic laugh test, except amongst a certain segment of our own population.

-Arrian

The difference between the good guys and the bad guys is never cut and dry. The Allies firebombed entire cities, and Hitler was kind to dogs. Everybody has the things they're not proud of, and everybody has some redeeming quality. But the problem comes when you demand perfection from the good guys and excuse any barbarism the bad guys commit. The difference between good guys and bad guys is either (a) the good guys are on my side or (b) the good guys are marginally less evil than the bad guys.

Israel killed about 1500 people when it invaded Gaza, slightly less than 1000 were civilians. That's fighting in some of the most densely populated places on the planet, against an enemy that sees nothing wrong with blending amongst the population. Yet it was criticized by the president of the UN General Assembly, Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann, who labeled the offensive "genocide." He wasn't the only one to launch into hyperbole. I've seen a general trend towards people who just go with the conventional wisdom that the Palestinians are victims of Israeli cruelty.

Israel launched thousands of sorties. They were attacking an area with no real civil defense mechanism and greatly diminished medical resources. Even if they weren't actively trying to kill Palestinians, if they were merely indifferent to the civilians, you would have seen a civilian death toll in the tens of thousands. If they were actively trying to murder Palestinians - well - they've got The Bomb. There's really no limit to the damage Israel can cause. But that's not what they do. They do what they can to fight their enemies and limit collateral damage.

Hamas on the other hand, makes no effort whatsoever to discriminate between soldier and civilian. Yet they're lauded by the international community as "resistance fighters" and their war crimes are excused because they're not a state. It's a double standard, and double standards are not right. A crime is a crime no matter who commits it, and no matter who the victim is.

08-26-2009, 01:13 AM	#21
kranskregyan Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 480 Senior Member	No good reason? Israel is a state. Palestine is not. That's for starters. Second, Israel loudly proclaims how wonderful it is, how it's a democracy surrounded by authoritarian monstrosities, etc. If you climb up on top of a mountain and proclaim your moral superiority, you're going to be held to a higher standard, and rightly so. Same with us. The US routinely criticizes other governments for torture and such. But when we do it, suddenly it's fine (or it's "not really torture" or whatever other bullshit excuse we choose to cling to). This is the basic issue, really: you cannot simultaneously proclaim that you're the "good guys" and all that (greatest nation on earth!!!1111!!!) whilst doing the very things the "bad guys" are doing, for which you label them bad guys. It doesn't pass a basic laugh test, except amongst a certain segment of our own population. -Arrian The difference between the good guys and the bad guys is never cut and dry. The Allies firebombed entire cities, and Hitler was kind to dogs. Everybody has the things they're not proud of, and everybody has some redeeming quality. But the problem comes when you demand perfection from the good guys and excuse any barbarism the bad guys commit. The difference between good guys and bad guys is either (a) the good guys are on my side or (b) the good guys are marginally less evil than the bad guys. Israel killed about 1500 people when it invaded Gaza, slightly less than 1000 were civilians. That's fighting in some of the most densely populated places on the planet, against an enemy that sees nothing wrong with blending amongst the population. Yet it was criticized by the president of the UN General Assembly, Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann, who labeled the offensive "genocide." He wasn't the only one to launch into hyperbole. I've seen a general trend towards people who just go with the conventional wisdom that the Palestinians are victims of Israeli cruelty. Israel launched thousands of sorties. They were attacking an area with no real civil defense mechanism and greatly diminished medical resources. Even if they weren't actively trying to kill Palestinians, if they were merely indifferent to the civilians, you would have seen a civilian death toll in the tens of thousands. If they were actively trying to murder Palestinians - well - they've got The Bomb. There's really no limit to the damage Israel can cause. But that's not what they do. They do what they can to fight their enemies and limit collateral damage. Hamas on the other hand, makes no effort whatsoever to discriminate between soldier and civilian. Yet they're lauded by the international community as "resistance fighters" and their war crimes are excused because they're not a state. It's a double standard, and double standards are not right. A crime is a crime no matter who commits it, and no matter who the victim is.
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