[Oriesssedleli419]

cmbaye, yes, I think the "non-self" idea is confusing, and still confuses me if I think about it and come to definitive conclusions. Some argue that the better term is "not-self", which seems to point to the idea that the "self" we hold so dear is not so much to be "got rid of" as understood, or seen through. (Its when I ask myself just "who" will be "seeing through it" that my own confusion can begin........) I think though that recognising the "false" self can be some sort of handle on opening to insight. Watching the games it plays and perhaps not taking them so seriously, even being gentle with it, being accepting and smiling at its tricks. Some one once spoke of "spiritual materialism", and part of this is thinking of having a "spiritual self" that grows and gains in insight, that accumulates knowledge and understanding, gradually refining itself and making itself a suitable candidate for "liberation". All nonsense of course. So it does seem to me that we should be a bit more laid back, get to know ourselves - just try not to take our "self" too seriously.

Ajahn Chan has said........Do not worry about enlightenment. When growing a tree, you plant it, water it, fertilize it, keep the bugs away; and if these things are done properly, the tree will naturally grow. How quickly it grows, however, is something you cannot control. (From "A Still Forest Pool")

So, at least for me, its more about "keeping the bugs away", and what is "real" takes care of itself, even if it is not a self at all.

D.T.Suzuki has said that we do not empty ourselves, but realise that we are empty from the beginning, which is another thing entirely.