[Dreaming]

Hi ngodngam,
thank u 4 ur most interesting reply, i am not sure of some of the terms u

have used but i will look them up + reply asap .respectfully paul.


Hi ngodngam,
you are the first person in the 30 or so yrs since i have had this

experience who has pointed me in the right direction let alone really understood what

i was talking about , its a shame i didnt study buddhism b4.
I cannot argue the point u made that it is not Satipatthana + not the

way of Sunyata or Nirvana as taught by Buddha as i had no previous knowledge or

comprehension of such things prior to the experience itself.I only knew of Siddartha

from a book ( of fiction ) i had found on a bus, by Herman Hesse .
It is also a fact that as you stated, for me in the experience , that

it was only experienced whilst in the meditation itself + that i exited from the state

when i exited from the state of meditation. Although there was the curious experience

of an infinate multiplicity of self forms that exploded from the sitting self, in all

concievable directions, when the returning self re-entered the sitting physical form.
So i would agree that this is not enlightenment, + i have never claimed

this + if i ever spoke of it, it was just as an experience i once had + one i hope i

can perhaps come close to again one day. And most people would pass it off as one of

my more extreme eccentricities, u see i didnt talk to many Buddhists + even when i did

come into contact with them i was not yet even able to formulate the right questions

ha,ha.
As i said ngodngam, u are the first person ever to inform me of my own

experience + u have my deepest thanks + eternal gratitude.
My experience is not then Sunyata or Nirvana as u said, as it was only

in the meditative state itself + not out of it . So i understand what u mean by being

'in' it or 'out' of it , + which state of full realisation both internally or

externally ( of the meditative state )+ whilst eating , talking drinking, walking, is

Sunyata or Nirvana , which Siddartha attained + taught. Is this the right

interpretation?
From a quick reading of the Jhanas i think i might have reached the

state of neither perception or non perception in the state i described when even the

internal + external perception of the self was equalised + what i termed as quiescsent

void was entered into, where there was no perception of anything not even internal or

external aspects of the self, all was void + complete emtyness. there remained the

perciever (self) or as i had called it , the experiencing principle but there were

absolutely no distinctions to be made from emptyness, all other perceptual qualities

had gone. Which then led to the cessation or non-experience or non-being of the self

of which i could not make any comment other than this, as if it had passed out of

existence completely.
I i understand that my way of dissociation is not Satipatthana,

which seems of my v brief reading of it just now, to be intensely analytical + of many

levels of attainment + understanding, which on an overview of them, i can understand

why they are as they are but would take a lot more reading 4 me to fully understand.
Your suggestion 4 me to quit dissociation from all thoughts +

feelings because they remove 'Sati' + dont create 'Sati' is something i dont fully

comprehend right now, perhaps if u could find the time to enlighten me further i would

appreciate it.
You are entirely right , i do not understand the four Noble Truths +

have not absolutely put down the self, though i know i must try + achieve this state

or condition whilst outside of the meditative state + in everyday life, which is what

i strive for. And in connection with this i would like to ask ur advice on a state or

condition of consciousness i came into which i call a dual wakeing/dreaming state of

cons's.
This state was a sort of precurser to the void states, in that i believe

that if i did not come into this state prior to the void states then i dont think i

would have been able to have entered into the void states subsequently.
It came after about 3 months of semi isolation + a lack of all but 3-4

hours sleep a night , readings of vairious mystical literature + practice of intuitve

meditative states. There were many unusual + some quite frightening altered states of

cons's to contend with but eventually after about 3 months my dreaming + usual wakeing

consiousness's seemed to 'fuse' + become one, a more complete awareness. This dual

cons's lasted about 3 days + many abilities + experiences could be held simultaneously

in attention + acted upon. I could either 'see' another persons dreams or otherworldly

excursions whilst 'seeing' vistas of other civilisations around me or 'see' a friend

coming roud to visit b4 they arrived , i could go into a meditative state + still

retain (an extended) awareness of the external world etc,etc. i dont think i slept in

the usual sense in that my awareness seemed continous thru both wakeing + dreaming ,

they were simultaneous.
Is there a state of cons's described in the Buddhist texts that might in

some way be similar to this experience? i would be v interested to know of it.
Thank u kindly 4 putting me straight on some of these issues i have struggled

with over the years, ur reply has been most informative + fruitful to me + i look

forward to hear of any other comments or guidance u can give ,
greatest of respect, paul

PS , in a sense these jhanas are of no use at all even as an experience or that they might give a 'good' incarnation because i think as u were trying to point out, they are not a continual experience + only give one a tantalising glimpse of the real thing.