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**pseusawbappem** · 06-08-2011, 06:22 AM

Kaarine, is Zazen meditation the same as Vipassana? What you’ve described of Zazen it sounds as though you take in awareness of your entire experiences - inner and outer - rather than focusing on one particular object?

Happily seems that Zazen is quite similar or very close to insight and mental tranquility. Sure, Zazen do not has any kind of particular object to be focused with, except, of course, breathing. We do not call it Samatha and Vipassana but Shi and Kan which are "to watch carefully" and to be concentrated. Both aspects at the same time are skilled through Zazen. We do not close eyes, we do not see anything or visualize anything, there is no need... we just watch mind, thoughts and how they arise and fade.

when your mind wanders off from the object of attention while you are meditating, you should just try and take note of where it habitually goes to, and then gently bring it back to your breath [...] Yes, right... as in Zazen... but breath... breathing is the clue and the posture, too. When mind wanders, again return to breath and mindfulness of posture. Posture in zazen has a lot of meanings...

Do you reach a stage where you are able to just ‘objectively’ recognize what you are thinking and feeling, and then move your attention back to whatever you are doing in the present moment? Is that what is meant by freeing yourself from attachment? Attachment to our thoughts and feelings? In Zen we have a saying... when eating, eat; when working, work. Is the same as saying... be aware on the here and now... remember not to get lost in wandering.

accept the feeling for what is was - an unpleasant experience - and not think about why it was there or try and push it away forcefully - as I usually do. Sure Aasha! At least that is the way that has worked better for me. At the beginning we discover that sadness (or any other emotion, desire, feeling, sensation, fabrication, thought, etc.) has come in "our" home; We didn't notice that. Let it be there. It will leave soon. After a while we started to notice when sadness (or whatever) wants to get in again and decide if we let it get in again...

Its all a bit too heavy for me to understand fully but I was thinking that maybe its the dark or lack of light which affects my mood (stimuli) - since I’m completely different when I’m up and about - and this triggers off negative thoughts leading to a feeling of depression. Feeling > Thoughts > Feeling. We are unaware of the association of feelings and mental fabrications. Zazen helps to untangle both and see them in a more dispassionate way.

Its all a bit too heavy for me to understand fully but I was thinking that maybe its the dark or lack of light which affects my mood (stimuli) Yes... it is important to be aware of how environment can interfere with our moods. I am very sensible about lack of light too. Gray rainy days don't help too much for me.

06-08-2011, 06:22 AM	#8
pseusawbappem Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 472 Senior Member	Kaarine, is Zazen meditation the same as Vipassana? What you’ve described of Zazen it sounds as though you take in awareness of your entire experiences - inner and outer - rather than focusing on one particular object? Happily seems that Zazen is quite similar or very close to insight and mental tranquility. Sure, Zazen do not has any kind of particular object to be focused with, except, of course, breathing. We do not call it Samatha and Vipassana but Shi and Kan which are "to watch carefully" and to be concentrated. Both aspects at the same time are skilled through Zazen. We do not close eyes, we do not see anything or visualize anything, there is no need... we just watch mind, thoughts and how they arise and fade. when your mind wanders off from the object of attention while you are meditating, you should just try and take note of where it habitually goes to, and then gently bring it back to your breath [...] Yes, right... as in Zazen... but breath... breathing is the clue and the posture, too. When mind wanders, again return to breath and mindfulness of posture. Posture in zazen has a lot of meanings... Do you reach a stage where you are able to just ‘objectively’ recognize what you are thinking and feeling, and then move your attention back to whatever you are doing in the present moment? Is that what is meant by freeing yourself from attachment? Attachment to our thoughts and feelings? In Zen we have a saying... when eating, eat; when working, work. Is the same as saying... be aware on the here and now... remember not to get lost in wandering. accept the feeling for what is was - an unpleasant experience - and not think about why it was there or try and push it away forcefully - as I usually do. Sure Aasha! At least that is the way that has worked better for me. At the beginning we discover that sadness (or any other emotion, desire, feeling, sensation, fabrication, thought, etc.) has come in "our" home; We didn't notice that. Let it be there. It will leave soon. After a while we started to notice when sadness (or whatever) wants to get in again and decide if we let it get in again... Its all a bit too heavy for me to understand fully but I was thinking that maybe its the dark or lack of light which affects my mood (stimuli) - since I’m completely different when I’m up and about - and this triggers off negative thoughts leading to a feeling of depression. Feeling > Thoughts > Feeling. We are unaware of the association of feelings and mental fabrications. Zazen helps to untangle both and see them in a more dispassionate way. Its all a bit too heavy for me to understand fully but I was thinking that maybe its the dark or lack of light which affects my mood (stimuli) Yes... it is important to be aware of how environment can interfere with our moods. I am very sensible about lack of light too. Gray rainy days don't help too much for me.
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