DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Breaking free from Rebirth... Why would you want to?

**Xewksghy** · 03-08-2011, 02:37 PM

I do not believe (although I have no proof either way) that the Buddha taught that there was no "self" - that, in some sense, each of us is an unidentifiable part of some cosmic all-encompassing "something", or a tiny speck in some massive community of organisms, any one of which has no distinct identity except for some "conventional" tag or label. Glibly saying that we have a "conventional self" simply begs the question of what exactly is meant by "conventional" (I have a feeling no one will be able to define this word in any way that makes sense without referring to the self). That said, this whole business about "no self" has not an iota of effect on my sense that Buddhism has some great things to teach

I think the teachings on not-self are being misunderstood. Nobody has said that the idea of a self doesn't exist for us on a day-to day level, nor that we don't exist as individual human beings. The teachings on not-self are simply to help us to let go of the causes of stress/unsatisfactoriness/ suffering. (dukkha)

We also tend to forget that the Buddha lived a very long time ago and spoke from the personal experience and understanding which had freed him from delusion, rather than from a modern day scientific approach. I'm reluctant to bring this issue up again in yet another thread, because we already have 2 recent ones on the subject, plus its occured in other threads too - and I'm at a loss to know what to suggest now, other than checking the resources already offered....and meditating.

Buddha said:

"Whatever is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit. And what is not yours?

"The eye is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit. Forms are not yours... Eye-consciousness is not yours... Eye-contact is not yours... Whatever arises in dependence on eye-contact, experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain, that too is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit.

"The ear is not yours: let go of it...

"The nose is not yours: let go of it...

"The tongue is not yours: let go of it...

"The body is not yours: let go of it...

"The intellect is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit.

Ideas are not yours... Intellect-consciousness is not yours... Intellect-contact is not yours... Whatever arises in dependence on intellect-contact, experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain, that too is not yours: let go of it.

Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit.

"Suppose a person were to gather or burn or do as he likes with the grass, twigs, branches, & leaves here in Jeta's Grove. Would the thought occur to you, 'It's us that this person is gathering, burning, or doing with as he likes'?"

"No, lord. Why is that? Because those things are not our self nor do they pertain to our self."

"In the same way, monks, the eye is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit... The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit... Whatever arises in dependence on intellect-contact, experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain, that too is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit.

(SN 35.101 - Na Tumhaka Sutta: Not Yours)

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....101.than.html

03-08-2011, 02:37 PM	#15
Xewksghy Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 504 Senior Member	I do not believe (although I have no proof either way) that the Buddha taught that there was no "self" - that, in some sense, each of us is an unidentifiable part of some cosmic all-encompassing "something", or a tiny speck in some massive community of organisms, any one of which has no distinct identity except for some "conventional" tag or label. Glibly saying that we have a "conventional self" simply begs the question of what exactly is meant by "conventional" (I have a feeling no one will be able to define this word in any way that makes sense without referring to the self). That said, this whole business about "no self" has not an iota of effect on my sense that Buddhism has some great things to teach I think the teachings on not-self are being misunderstood. Nobody has said that the idea of a self doesn't exist for us on a day-to day level, nor that we don't exist as individual human beings. The teachings on not-self are simply to help us to let go of the causes of stress/unsatisfactoriness/ suffering. (dukkha) We also tend to forget that the Buddha lived a very long time ago and spoke from the personal experience and understanding which had freed him from delusion, rather than from a modern day scientific approach. I'm reluctant to bring this issue up again in yet another thread, because we already have 2 recent ones on the subject, plus its occured in other threads too - and I'm at a loss to know what to suggest now, other than checking the resources already offered....and meditating. Buddha said: "Whatever is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit. And what is not yours? "The eye is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit. Forms are not yours... Eye-consciousness is not yours... Eye-contact is not yours... Whatever arises in dependence on eye-contact, experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain, that too is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit. "The ear is not yours: let go of it... "The nose is not yours: let go of it... "The tongue is not yours: let go of it... "The body is not yours: let go of it... "The intellect is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit. Ideas are not yours... Intellect-consciousness is not yours... Intellect-contact is not yours... Whatever arises in dependence on intellect-contact, experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain, that too is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit. "Suppose a person were to gather or burn or do as he likes with the grass, twigs, branches, & leaves here in Jeta's Grove. Would the thought occur to you, 'It's us that this person is gathering, burning, or doing with as he likes'?" "No, lord. Why is that? Because those things are not our self nor do they pertain to our self." "In the same way, monks, the eye is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit... The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit... Whatever arises in dependence on intellect-contact, experienced either as pleasure, as pain, or as neither-pleasure-nor-pain, that too is not yours: let go of it. Your letting go of it will be for your long-term happiness & benefit. (SN 35.101 - Na Tumhaka Sutta: Not Yours) http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....101.than.html
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