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**Rffkwfct** · 03-06-2011, 08:51 PM

Thank you for posting this reference.
If I say that 'I cannot exist' without producing some cause & effect, then this assumes that "I" is a substantial thing. So, "I" and karma are both dependent on each other for their arising. Obviously, Buddha stirred up a great deal of cause & effect, otherwise 2500 years later we wouldn't be having this discussion. So, I tend to think that the question 'can we be free from karma' is the wrong question.

Perhaps a better way to look at this would be to ask, 'can we be free from the EFFECTS of karma' ---meaning, can we cross through a stream of cause & effect without being washed away into cyclic existence, into the 'ocean of samsara'?

I mentioned before that if you look at how sound occurs, this gives a good model for how karma & rebirth happen. When something (a tree falling in the woods?) moves or hits something else, it causes air molecules to smack into each other, like billiard balls, each one sending a nearly identical vibration to the next one, until that vibration hits your ear drum. It is only in the mind that we "hear" that vibration, or a recording of that vibration, as "sound". Likewise, the experience of "me" is produced, as the quote from the Dhammapada suggests, as a continuous chain reaction, experienced as a substantial thing by (or in, or as) the mind. That is when the discussion of karma begins.

So, I think we have to look at the idea of 'being free from karma' more in terms of not being trapped in karmic snares. If some unexpected negative thing happens, yesterday it might have gotten you all upset, but today you see that it is empty of any true existence- it's not a big deal after all, and it has no effect on you. So, it doesn't leave a strong impact. You don't dwell on it, you don't lose sleep over it and it doesn't shape you you will become in the future.

Karma in a nutshell

1. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.

2. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.

03-06-2011, 08:51 PM	#36
Rffkwfct Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 446 Senior Member	Thank you for posting this reference. If I say that 'I cannot exist' without producing some cause & effect, then this assumes that "I" is a substantial thing. So, "I" and karma are both dependent on each other for their arising. Obviously, Buddha stirred up a great deal of cause & effect, otherwise 2500 years later we wouldn't be having this discussion. So, I tend to think that the question 'can we be free from karma' is the wrong question. Perhaps a better way to look at this would be to ask, 'can we be free from the EFFECTS of karma' ---meaning, can we cross through a stream of cause & effect without being washed away into cyclic existence, into the 'ocean of samsara'? I mentioned before that if you look at how sound occurs, this gives a good model for how karma & rebirth happen. When something (a tree falling in the woods?) moves or hits something else, it causes air molecules to smack into each other, like billiard balls, each one sending a nearly identical vibration to the next one, until that vibration hits your ear drum. It is only in the mind that we "hear" that vibration, or a recording of that vibration, as "sound". Likewise, the experience of "me" is produced, as the quote from the Dhammapada suggests, as a continuous chain reaction, experienced as a substantial thing by (or in, or as) the mind. That is when the discussion of karma begins. So, I think we have to look at the idea of 'being free from karma' more in terms of not being trapped in karmic snares. If some unexpected negative thing happens, yesterday it might have gotten you all upset, but today you see that it is empty of any true existence- it's not a big deal after all, and it has no effect on you. So, it doesn't leave a strong impact. You don't dwell on it, you don't lose sleep over it and it doesn't shape you you will become in the future. Karma in a nutshell 1. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox. 2. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.
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