DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - As Refugees Flee Islamists in Mali, Solutions Are Elusive

**fubyFrery** · 07-16-2012, 09:17 PM

Brother - my point is simple - I'm taking about the context of having a methodology for Muslim success in the 21st century - the Taliban do not have it but the Ikhwanis do. Simple matter of fact. Afghanistan was a backward country during Taliban rule and it remains after it and before it.

Brother I do not know why you bring up the ''minority opinion'' issue -since I already explained to you the difference by citing the difference between ibadat (worship, acts of individual devotion) and political policy. That is the distinction I hold.

I agree this much -the Taliban did make an improvement to Afghanistan but that doesn't mean a lot since their predecessors were even bigger barbarians then they were. Why on earth should the Ummah look to a failed state such as Afghanistan or Pakistan for a successful methodology for the 21st century when we have the Ikhwanis, Turkey, Malaysia or Indonesia? By the way all these countries never claim perfection but they are all working hard and have been doing so for many decades.

Then why blame the Taliban or insult them as well as the ulama who support them? The way they ruled was a necessity and remains a necessity. If Afghanistan was a tame country, where lawlessness didn't run rampant, you'd have a point. But this has not been the case and is not the case so what is wrong with the Taliban?

If you're talking about the 21st century, then you should not be talking about Afghanistan. Afghanistan seems to be stuck in the 19th century, let alone the 20th or 21st century. As mentioned earlier, the way the Taliban ruled was due to necessity so why insult them? Do you think Ikhwanis would have succeeded in Afghanistan? Of course not, since there was no political infrastructure to support their approach to governance.

And that is quite an arbitrary distinction you're coming up with, especially since political policy is intertwined with ibadah in Islam.

Also, who has ever said that the methodology employed by the Taliban is something to be emulated worldwide? There are some areas where it needs to be emulated, like in Somalia, but it cannot be emulated worldwide since the context is different. Even the Taliban conceded that they are harsher and less lenient because the context calls for it.

What can Egyptians learn from the Taliban? Nothing
What can Turks learn from the Taliban? Nothing

Modern Muslim nations and countries where levels of education are even marginally better than Afghanistan have nothing to learn from the Taliban - they have developed their own movements, ideas and methodologies which are more conducive towards building successful Muslim power in the 21st century. This ultimately is the crux of the matter - how to develop and progress within an Islamic framework? What can Afghanistan learn from the Egyptians or the Turks? Nothing.

As I've said and you've basically agreed, Afghanistan is a special country. It does not have a strong civil society. It is in the hands of barbarian warlords and the people have become acclimatized to this type of rule. It takes at least a generation for nations to change. If the Taliban had been able to consolidate power for a longer period of time, it would have been the laying of a foundation for civil society but since they were ousted prematurely, how can you expect to build a house without a foundation?

07-16-2012, 09:17 PM	#26
fubyFrery Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 476 Senior Member	Brother - my point is simple - I'm taking about the context of having a methodology for Muslim success in the 21st century - the Taliban do not have it but the Ikhwanis do. Simple matter of fact. Afghanistan was a backward country during Taliban rule and it remains after it and before it. Brother I do not know why you bring up the ''minority opinion'' issue -since I already explained to you the difference by citing the difference between ibadat (worship, acts of individual devotion) and political policy. That is the distinction I hold. I agree this much -the Taliban did make an improvement to Afghanistan but that doesn't mean a lot since their predecessors were even bigger barbarians then they were. Why on earth should the Ummah look to a failed state such as Afghanistan or Pakistan for a successful methodology for the 21st century when we have the Ikhwanis, Turkey, Malaysia or Indonesia? By the way all these countries never claim perfection but they are all working hard and have been doing so for many decades. Then why blame the Taliban or insult them as well as the ulama who support them? The way they ruled was a necessity and remains a necessity. If Afghanistan was a tame country, where lawlessness didn't run rampant, you'd have a point. But this has not been the case and is not the case so what is wrong with the Taliban? If you're talking about the 21st century, then you should not be talking about Afghanistan. Afghanistan seems to be stuck in the 19th century, let alone the 20th or 21st century. As mentioned earlier, the way the Taliban ruled was due to necessity so why insult them? Do you think Ikhwanis would have succeeded in Afghanistan? Of course not, since there was no political infrastructure to support their approach to governance. And that is quite an arbitrary distinction you're coming up with, especially since political policy is intertwined with ibadah in Islam. Also, who has ever said that the methodology employed by the Taliban is something to be emulated worldwide? There are some areas where it needs to be emulated, like in Somalia, but it cannot be emulated worldwide since the context is different. Even the Taliban conceded that they are harsher and less lenient because the context calls for it. What can Egyptians learn from the Taliban? Nothing What can Turks learn from the Taliban? Nothing Modern Muslim nations and countries where levels of education are even marginally better than Afghanistan have nothing to learn from the Taliban - they have developed their own movements, ideas and methodologies which are more conducive towards building successful Muslim power in the 21st century. This ultimately is the crux of the matter - how to develop and progress within an Islamic framework? What can Afghanistan learn from the Egyptians or the Turks? Nothing. As I've said and you've basically agreed, Afghanistan is a special country. It does not have a strong civil society. It is in the hands of barbarian warlords and the people have become acclimatized to this type of rule. It takes at least a generation for nations to change. If the Taliban had been able to consolidate power for a longer period of time, it would have been the laying of a foundation for civil society but since they were ousted prematurely, how can you expect to build a house without a foundation?
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