DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Corporations and Limited Liability not Shariah Compliant

**Patgaepx** · 08-05-2012, 09:29 PM

Brother, hope it goes well for you. But I would urge you again to refrain from investing. You cannot learn how to invest in stock markets buy reading books. It will give you a picture of what to lookout for and an idea of the different financial instruments out there. But unless you have an expertise on a particular sector or are involved in this sector yourself, the 'odds' are stacked against you/us.

Its not neceassarily the share that matters, its the the business and the structure of the business behind it which the share represents. How many shares are in issue - how many are on loan - how many are there fully subscribed? What are the clauses in place, largely hidden away to smallprint in some cases, that could trigger the full subscription (and dilute your holding making it worth less after exercize of warrants). What classes of share and what other liabilities are sitting somewhere dressed-up in jargon?

The amount of stuff they were doing back in the arly 00's was rather shocking (experience with a few like-minded friends), I can only imagine the web is even more tangled now. Judging by the the key players (banks, investment banks, finacial services firms) they are much more sophisticated at their deception now.

Allahu A'lam

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته و مغفرته

I disagree strongly with some points and agree with others. But alhamdulillah there is no use in debating how tough the meat of a pig is to chew when eating a pig is Haraam. I have finished reading through the 25 page write up by Mufti Yusuf bin Yaqub and also the huge 113 page discussion between Mufti Vawda Saheb & Mufti Ebrahim Desai against Mufti Ashraf. The impermissibility of trading in the stock market has been so clearly laid out it is undeniable. It is a great testimony to the truth, professionalism and scholarship of Deoband that they managed to build up a case from the bottom up so strong that I cannot see how personally, I can continue to go down this route. The counter arguments were nowhere near as strong, often illogical and lacked any credible references. It's a shame that many scholars are so quiet on this issue whether due to fear of repercussions or lack of knowledge. In fact, in many cases it was shocking how Ulema (with all due respect) were issuing fatwa's on the permissibility of shares when they did not even understand what the role of a director is in a company.

My only concern now is a family member who is planning on an entire career on investing in companies. I will need to convince them, I request du'aas that the arguments laid out by these Mufti's can come into my mind with proper understanding and be made manifest on my tongue with eloquence and proper adhab such that I can convince others of its impermissibility.

08-05-2012, 09:29 PM	#21
Patgaepx Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 419 Senior Member	Brother, hope it goes well for you. But I would urge you again to refrain from investing. You cannot learn how to invest in stock markets buy reading books. It will give you a picture of what to lookout for and an idea of the different financial instruments out there. But unless you have an expertise on a particular sector or are involved in this sector yourself, the 'odds' are stacked against you/us. Its not neceassarily the share that matters, its the the business and the structure of the business behind it which the share represents. How many shares are in issue - how many are on loan - how many are there fully subscribed? What are the clauses in place, largely hidden away to smallprint in some cases, that could trigger the full subscription (and dilute your holding making it worth less after exercize of warrants). What classes of share and what other liabilities are sitting somewhere dressed-up in jargon? The amount of stuff they were doing back in the arly 00's was rather shocking (experience with a few like-minded friends), I can only imagine the web is even more tangled now. Judging by the the key players (banks, investment banks, finacial services firms) they are much more sophisticated at their deception now. Allahu A'lam السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته و مغفرته I disagree strongly with some points and agree with others. But alhamdulillah *there is no use in debating how tough the meat of a pig is to chew when eating a pig is Haraam*. I have finished reading through the 25 page write up by Mufti Yusuf bin Yaqub and also the huge 113 page discussion between Mufti Vawda Saheb & Mufti Ebrahim Desai against Mufti Ashraf. The impermissibility of trading in the stock market has been so clearly laid out it is undeniable. It is a great testimony to the truth, professionalism and scholarship of Deoband that they managed to build up a case from the bottom up so strong that I cannot see how personally, I can continue to go down this route. The counter arguments were nowhere near as strong, often illogical and lacked any credible references. It's a shame that many scholars are so quiet on this issue whether due to fear of repercussions or lack of knowledge. In fact, in many cases it was shocking how Ulema (with all due respect) were issuing fatwa's on the permissibility of shares when they did not even understand what the role of a director is in a company. My only concern now is a family member who is planning on an entire career on investing in companies. I will need to convince them, I request du'aas that the arguments laid out by these Mufti's can come into my mind with proper understanding and be made manifest on my tongue with eloquence and proper adhab such that I can convince others of its impermissibility.
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