DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post

**Pynctyncroast** · 01-21-2012, 04:05 AM

I think because it hasn't been a serious issue in the Muslim world until recently. Although this confrontation between atheism and Christianity has been going on in the West for centuries, the same wasn't true in the Muslim world. Now, however, you have some half-educated Muslims going to Western-style educational institutions and coming away with these ideas, without ever really studying logic. That's the problem with most "intellectuals" these days- they have no idea what constitutes a logical argument. Logic is not even a mandatory subject anymore (the only thing that is taught is a brief overview of propositional logic, usually as part of math class). Is it any wonder the atheists have such an easy time swaying these "educated" people?

On the flip side, these atheists are none too familiar with Islam, so when confronted with it, they are unable to respond with actual arguments. Instead, they just parrot the same false notions of Islam that they inherited from their Crusader ancestors. It is baffling to them, because they have such an easy time poking fun at nonsensical Christian doctrines.

In the end, though, people like Dawkins and Hitchens- you can't argue with them because they will not be fair nor will they argue logically. Their "arguments" are full of ad hominem attacks, red herrings and straw men. You can't win an argument with a fool.

May Allah reward Hamzah for his good work. I hope he can perhaps get a book published someday, and put some major marketing effort behind it. If he can write a book, for example, where he takes apart all of Dawkins' arguments, then Dawkins will either have to respond with a book of his own, or admit defeat. Hamza already has a lot of good material to work with (although I think he is better off sticking with pure philosophy, and not bringing biology into it).

EDIT: This and related videos of John Lennox are very good. Although a Christian, he is an excellent orator and delivers some strong arguments. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY1uT...a6ALTxb3lwAKAA

This post is spot on, 100% correct. None of these people study logic, they are adverse to it otherwise they'd have to submit and their arguments are full of flaws.

Hamza did write a book and contributed to another (I think) but tbh, books like these won't ever get picked up by mainstream stores. He hasn't written one specifically regarding dawkins though, although he has refuted him in articles found on his website. Dawkins would never admit defeat or even try and rebut a book (there are some by other theists out there, such as the Dawkins Delusion which he has never mentioned as far as I'm aware) for the same reason he avoids debates; he says he doesn't want to give theists a platform

01-21-2012, 04:05 AM	#13
Pynctyncroast Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 385 Senior Member	I think because it hasn't been a serious issue in the Muslim world until recently. Although this confrontation between atheism and Christianity has been going on in the West for centuries, the same wasn't true in the Muslim world. Now, however, you have some half-educated Muslims going to Western-style educational institutions and coming away with these ideas, without ever really studying logic. That's the problem with most "intellectuals" these days- they have no idea what constitutes a logical argument. Logic is not even a mandatory subject anymore (the only thing that is taught is a brief overview of propositional logic, usually as part of math class). Is it any wonder the atheists have such an easy time swaying these "educated" people? On the flip side, these atheists are none too familiar with Islam, so when confronted with it, they are unable to respond with actual arguments. Instead, they just parrot the same false notions of Islam that they inherited from their Crusader ancestors. It is baffling to them, because they have such an easy time poking fun at nonsensical Christian doctrines. In the end, though, people like Dawkins and Hitchens- you can't argue with them because they will not be fair nor will they argue logically. Their "arguments" are full of ad hominem attacks, red herrings and straw men. You can't win an argument with a fool. May Allah reward Hamzah for his good work. I hope he can perhaps get a book published someday, and put some major marketing effort behind it. If he can write a book, for example, where he takes apart all of Dawkins' arguments, then Dawkins will either have to respond with a book of his own, or admit defeat. Hamza already has a lot of good material to work with (although I think he is better off sticking with pure philosophy, and not bringing biology into it). EDIT: This and related videos of John Lennox are very good. Although a Christian, he is an excellent orator and delivers some strong arguments. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY1uT...a6ALTxb3lwAKAA This post is spot on, 100% correct. None of these people study logic, they are adverse to it otherwise they'd have to submit and their arguments are full of flaws. Hamza did write a book and contributed to another (I think) but tbh, books like these won't ever get picked up by mainstream stores. He hasn't written one specifically regarding dawkins though, although he has refuted him in articles found on his website. Dawkins would never admit defeat or even try and rebut a book (there are some by other theists out there, such as the Dawkins Delusion which he has never mentioned as far as I'm aware) for the same reason he avoids debates; he says he doesn't want to give theists a platform
	Quote