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**Intory** · 07-27-2012, 11:09 AM

Are you sure they haven't memorized the Bible? I always assumed they did, by the way the rapidly quote verse after verse. I also heard the Zakir Naik memorized Hindu scriptures as well.
And about memorizing relevant verses, how would you know what verses would be relevant in a debate? Your opponent could bring up any topic, so you wouldn't really know which verses to memorize.

This is true. I myself though of them as scholars when I first saw their videos. I know better now though.

Akhi, I dont remember ever watching a video in which Shabir denies a sahih hadith, and I've watched a lot of his videos on youtube. Can you provide a link?

Well Shabir and Naik may have some deviant beliefs, but they sure know how to defend Islam. Watching there videos may help a new Muslims iman increase. But like I said, they rarely talk about fiqhi issues, so this isn't an unavoidable danger.

Brother you are right. I Agree that Shabir and Zakir would probably be condemned or even declared apostates in an actual Shariah state because of some of their statements (like Shabir's about evolution), but this doesn't change that fact that they've refuted the Christians many times and are great da'ees (Zakir Naik has brought many people to Islam).

It is my guarantee that they have not memorised the Bible. Naik has not memorised hindu scriptures either, but only the relevant passages (he admitted this, he is not even haafiz of Al Quran). The way to know which verses will be relevant is to know the most common method of attack (from the opposition). For example, you memorise all the verses regarding the oneness of God and then you memorise all the verses the Christians interpret to say that God is trinity (may Allah save us from such disbelief). Then, for example, we know Christians will try and attack Sharia law and speak about acts such as stoning so you memorise verses about stoning... many people have done this, not just Shabir Ally and Naik and it is not difficult when basic studies of the text have been completed.

With regards to video's of Shabir denying sahih hadith, I haven't watched any of his video's in over two years but I found such statements in even the first few video's of his that I watched (which is why I think he is so dangerous).

Regarding whether the danger they pose is AVOIDABLE, it is only avoidable if you have basic knowledge of Islam (which a new Muslim or even an 'old' Muslim may not have). It is not avoidable at all. Just look at the fact he is asked to lead salaah! People have been duped by the likes of Ally and Naik and the fact that they have brought people to Islam is not a mitigating factor since people like Ally can be considered zindeeq and we judge them according to the sharia, not according to whether they brought people to Islam or not. Especially since it is actually only Allah who guides and these people would have been guided even if Naik and Ally had never existed.

So, when we realise that:

1. Only Allah guides to Islam
2. These two are people of misguidance (Ally especially)

We find that we should NOT advocate that people listen to them

07-27-2012, 11:09 AM	#38
Intory Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 457 Senior Member	Are you sure they haven't memorized the Bible? I always assumed they did, by the way the rapidly quote verse after verse. I also heard the Zakir Naik memorized Hindu scriptures as well. And about memorizing relevant verses, how would you know what verses would be relevant in a debate? Your opponent could bring up any topic, so you wouldn't really know which verses to memorize. This is true. I myself though of them as scholars when I first saw their videos. I know better now though. Akhi, I dont remember ever watching a video in which Shabir denies a sahih hadith, and I've watched a lot of his videos on youtube. Can you provide a link? Well Shabir and Naik may have some deviant beliefs, but they sure know how to defend Islam. Watching there videos may help a new Muslims iman increase. But like I said, they rarely talk about fiqhi issues, so this isn't an unavoidable danger. Brother you are right. I Agree that Shabir and Zakir would probably be condemned or even declared apostates in an actual Shariah state because of some of their statements (like Shabir's about evolution), but this doesn't change that fact that they've refuted the Christians many times and are great da'ees (Zakir Naik has brought many people to Islam). It is my guarantee that they have not memorised the Bible. Naik has not memorised hindu scriptures either, but only the relevant passages (he admitted this, he is not even haafiz of Al Quran). The way to know which verses will be relevant is to know the most common method of attack (from the opposition). For example, you memorise all the verses regarding the oneness of God and then you memorise all the verses the Christians interpret to say that God is trinity (may Allah save us from such disbelief). Then, for example, we know Christians will try and attack Sharia law and speak about acts such as stoning so you memorise verses about stoning... many people have done this, not just Shabir Ally and Naik and it is not difficult when basic studies of the text have been completed. With regards to video's of Shabir denying sahih hadith, I haven't watched any of his video's in over two years but I found such statements in even the first few video's of his that I watched (which is why I think he is so dangerous). Regarding whether the danger they pose is AVOIDABLE, it is only avoidable if you have basic knowledge of Islam (which a new Muslim or even an 'old' Muslim may not have). It is not avoidable at all. Just look at the fact he is asked to lead salaah! People have been duped by the likes of Ally and Naik and the fact that they have brought people to Islam is not a mitigating factor since people like Ally can be considered zindeeq and we judge them according to the sharia, not according to whether they brought people to Islam or not. Especially since it is actually only Allah who guides and these people would have been guided even if Naik and Ally had never existed. So, when we realise that: 1. Only Allah guides to Islam 2. These two are people of misguidance (Ally especially) We find that we should NOT advocate that people listen to them
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