DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Relevance of the Sunni aqeeda with regard to the Creation/non creation of the Quran?

**GarryPaterson** · 07-25-2012, 07:08 AM

"Words of the Quran" also requires further explantion. What do you mean by "words" ? Written words as in drawing scripts ? Do imagery scripts somehow emerge out of a speech ? Or do you mean spoken words as in different sounds of reciting the arabic alaphabets and making sentences using combination of sounds of those Arabic alphabets? ? Does Allah speak like humans having sounds with certain measured properties that can measured using physical instruments, and it emerges out of Allah's self and descends into people's hears?

Either one says "Words" of Allah's Speech is something accepted based on tafweed as come in the book of Allah without howness nor tasbih. In this case then any image that people imagine to be the howness of Allah's speech is negated of Allah as those images are nothing but images of creation. In this there in no way the words written down by the sahabah who recorded the Quran into books can be considered as Allah's words in essence and modality itself just as our recitation is not the same as the reality of Allah's speech in essence and modality. Quran has also come in 7 modes of recitation. Yet no one said that it means Allah spoke the Quran 7times in 7modes of recitation.

If one says instead that Allah speaks in reality Arabic words no different to how humans speak with just some change in pitch and wavelength of the voice of Allah, then the person is an anthropomorphist who likened Allah to creation.

Some of the hanbalis were manly concerned with the former while anthropomorphists exaggerate and took the latter understanding. And this is wy is necessary to make clear distinction of the meaning as the anthropomorphists survive based on playing with words and rhetoric.

07-25-2012, 07:08 AM	#11
GarryPaterson Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 354 Senior Member	"Words of the Quran" also requires further explantion. What do you mean by "words" ? Written words as in drawing scripts ? Do imagery scripts somehow emerge out of a speech ? Or do you mean spoken words as in different sounds of reciting the arabic alaphabets and making sentences using combination of sounds of those Arabic alphabets? ? Does Allah speak like humans having sounds with certain measured properties that can measured using physical instruments, and it emerges out of Allah's self and descends into people's hears? Either one says "Words" of Allah's Speech is something accepted based on tafweed as come in the book of Allah without howness nor tasbih. In this case then any image that people imagine to be the howness of Allah's speech is negated of Allah as those images are nothing but images of creation. In this there in no way the words written down by the sahabah who recorded the Quran into books can be considered as Allah's words in essence and modality itself just as our recitation is not the same as the reality of Allah's speech in essence and modality. Quran has also come in 7 modes of recitation. Yet no one said that it means Allah spoke the Quran 7times in 7modes of recitation. If one says instead that Allah speaks in reality Arabic words no different to how humans speak with just some change in pitch and wavelength of the voice of Allah, then the person is an anthropomorphist who likened Allah to creation. Some of the hanbalis were manly concerned with the former while anthropomorphists exaggerate and took the latter understanding. And this is wy is necessary to make clear distinction of the meaning as the anthropomorphists survive based on playing with words and rhetoric.
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