DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - How many useless arguments on SF are caused by semantic differences of terms?

**oemcheapdownload** · 07-08-2012, 04:08 PM

[QUOTE=Abu Zakir;789744]

The term Capitalism is a contested word. It was coined by anti-Capitalists as a pejorative term, some people think the western democracies are capitalist, others think that they are more socialist because the governments manage the economy. I subscribe to the view that Capitalism however it is defined as it exists in western democracies is evil, as is socialism. Only Islam is the solution and anyone who disagrees with this, and tries to say that Capitalism is Islamic or Socialism is Islamic is either very uninformed or out right lying.

Well isnt the very purpose the topic arguing against the notion that semantics cause useless arguments. You ignore the entire definition of capitalism as I have extracted from wikipedia:

Sourced from wikipidea:
Capitalism is an economic system that is based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods or services for profit. Competitive markets, wage labor, capital accumulation, voluntary exchange, and personal finance are also considered capitalistic.

You go on a rant about how central banks and riba are central elements of capitalism when clearly capitalism can exist independent of usury dealings. Look at the definition again. You should perhaps reframe your statements and say capitalism as viewed by AbuZakir and anti-capitalists is an evil. Or capitalism in an unregulated and atheist materialistic context is haram. Turkey, malaysia, UAE and several ISlamic nations have capitalism. Private ownership of means of production, freedom to do business without indulgence in interest, wage labour, barter and exchange in a relatively free market and intention for profit and capital accumulation. Nothing wrong in all this. IF I pay zakat I can be as capitalistic as I want which you yourself propagate incessantly in all your posts. You sounded like the most capitalistic person on this forum arguing against government taking money from individuals and using it for welfare programs or communal projects and now turn around and say you dont have any capitalism in you. No one has ever argued that Islam is not a solution. We are not even comparing Islam versus capitalism. We are just saying capitalism can have Islamic aspects to it. So Abu Zakir please dont be judgemental about other peoples intention. Try to reason what we are saying. WE are not liars. WE might be uninformed but we can read and argue alittle here and there. As I said unless we are two Muslim economists who have studied these things in detail we probably shouldnt make black and white statements like fatwas that capitalism is evil and satanic. Lets stick and behave like lay people and say I probably think this, in my opinion, If i understood you correctly, By capitalism I mean certain aspects of it e.t.c. Lets not be black and white and say salafism is evil, capitalism is evil, socialism is evil, democracy is evil. RAtionalize things for us nicely. You have told us for e.g. riba is evil and we all know it. Perhaps you can explain to us how capitalism without riba ceases to be capitalism since you are an elitely informed muslim who has studied, analysed and mastered economic concepts.

07-08-2012, 04:08 PM	#18
oemcheapdownload Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 373 Senior Member	[QUOTE=Abu Zakir;789744] The term Capitalism is a contested word. It was coined by anti-Capitalists as a pejorative term, some people think the western democracies are capitalist, others think that they are more socialist because the governments manage the economy. I subscribe to the view that Capitalism however it is defined as it exists in western democracies is evil, as is socialism. Only Islam is the solution and anyone who disagrees with this, and tries to say that Capitalism is Islamic or Socialism is Islamic is either very uninformed or out right lying. Well isnt the very purpose the topic arguing against the notion that semantics cause useless arguments. You ignore the entire definition of capitalism as I have extracted from wikipedia: Sourced from wikipidea: Capitalism is an economic system that is based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods or services for profit. Competitive markets, wage labor, capital accumulation, voluntary exchange, and personal finance are also considered capitalistic. You go on a rant about how central banks and riba are central elements of capitalism when clearly capitalism can exist independent of usury dealings. Look at the definition again. You should perhaps reframe your statements and say capitalism as viewed by AbuZakir and anti-capitalists is an evil. Or capitalism in an unregulated and atheist materialistic context is haram. Turkey, malaysia, UAE and several ISlamic nations have capitalism. Private ownership of means of production, freedom to do business without indulgence in interest, wage labour, barter and exchange in a relatively free market and intention for profit and capital accumulation. Nothing wrong in all this. IF I pay zakat I can be as capitalistic as I want which you yourself propagate incessantly in all your posts. You sounded like the most capitalistic person on this forum arguing against government taking money from individuals and using it for welfare programs or communal projects and now turn around and say you dont have any capitalism in you. No one has ever argued that Islam is not a solution. We are not even comparing Islam versus capitalism. We are just saying capitalism can have Islamic aspects to it. So Abu Zakir please dont be judgemental about other peoples intention. Try to reason what we are saying. WE are not liars. WE might be uninformed but we can read and argue alittle here and there. As I said unless we are two Muslim economists who have studied these things in detail we probably shouldnt make black and white statements like fatwas that capitalism is evil and satanic. Lets stick and behave like lay people and say I probably think this, in my opinion, If i understood you correctly, By capitalism I mean certain aspects of it e.t.c. Lets not be black and white and say salafism is evil, capitalism is evil, socialism is evil, democracy is evil. RAtionalize things for us nicely. You have told us for e.g. riba is evil and we all know it. Perhaps you can explain to us how capitalism without riba ceases to be capitalism since you are an elitely informed muslim who has studied, analysed and mastered economic concepts.
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