DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - The moment a missile hits the minaret of a Masjid.

**WelcomeMe** · 07-04-2012, 06:22 PM

1) Grave worship and erecting graves are two different things. The quote you were responding to of me said I have a problem with grave worshipping sufis (i.e. false sufi claimants) so its a different topic to demolishing graves

2) I agree, you need to teach tawheed, I would assume that ansar ad din are doing that inshAllah and not just randomly smashing things

3) I agree vigilantism is not allowed in islam. We can speak against it with our tongue though inshAllah

4) If you are the ruler and you wish to act upon the ahadeeth ordering the smashing of tombs and you wish to act upon the opinions of the salaf I have mentioned ordered the smashing of tombs then this is why you would smash the tombs. We must respect the legitimate opinion they are following inshAllah

5) You have to define what you mean by "militant". "militant" and "dictatorship" are western terms and have no basis in the shariah. All a ruler simply needs to do is implement the hukm of Allah. This may involve "education" and it may involve what the west may describe as "militant" activity in the way of enforcing Islamic rules on the people. This is how it has been from the time of the prophet SAW right up until the time that the final handhold of Islam was broken (i.e. the hukm of Allah)

1) Misguided is he who cannot be guided. And guidance means 'negotiation/education'. If the graveworshipper wont budge, he's misguided; but if the hater-of-graveworshippers wont budge, then he too is misguided. Since neither of the two are willing to negotiate, neither can be guided.

2) Judging from the interviews ive seen from local people, theyre saying they are afraid of the guns, and hence are just standing and watching. They will simply rebuild it later, they say:

"They had armed men guarding the door. Just like yesterday, the population did not react. They said we need to let them do what they want, hoping that someday we will rebuild the tombs," Tandina said. (SOURCE)
This just shows that Ansar Dine did not discuss or educate, and did not receive approval before their destruction. It also proves the complete ineffectiveness of their tactics, seeing how people are just eager to rebuild what Ansar Dine destroyed. It also shows they have no political strategy for longevity by carrying out such actions in haste.

3) Inshallah

4) Respect the opinion of who? There are so many claiming authority, who decides who is best? Is Ansar Dine's the "legitimate opinion" simply since they have guns, the others dont?

5) "Militant" refers to one who is combative: the state fights its rebels, and the rebels fight the state. But the state does not fight its civilians/subjects. When the state does do that, that is called "tyranny". These are not Western concepts, tyranny exists anywhere. And this tyranny in the form "islamic state" has claimed many martyrs: Hussein, Zaid, Abu Hanifah, and most of the Imams that the shia worship today, and thousands others. They were all unjustly targetted by people who were tasked with the duty of islamic state/sharia. They were not following the "hukm of Allah", they were exercising their own hukm.

07-04-2012, 06:22 PM	#17
WelcomeMe Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 573 Senior Member	1) Grave worship and erecting graves are two different things. The quote you were responding to of me said I have a problem with grave worshipping sufis (i.e. false sufi claimants) so its a different topic to demolishing graves 2) I agree, you need to teach tawheed, I would assume that ansar ad din are doing that inshAllah and not just randomly smashing things 3) I agree vigilantism is not allowed in islam. We can speak against it with our tongue though inshAllah 4) If you are the ruler and you wish to act upon the ahadeeth ordering the smashing of tombs and you wish to act upon the opinions of the salaf I have mentioned ordered the smashing of tombs then this is why you would smash the tombs. We must respect the legitimate opinion they are following inshAllah 5) You have to define what you mean by "militant". "militant" and "dictatorship" are western terms and have no basis in the shariah. All a ruler simply needs to do is implement the hukm of Allah. This may involve "education" and it may involve what the west may describe as "militant" activity in the way of enforcing Islamic rules on the people. This is how it has been from the time of the prophet SAW right up until the time that the final handhold of Islam was broken (i.e. the hukm of Allah) 1) Misguided is he who cannot be guided. And guidance means 'negotiation/education'. If the graveworshipper wont budge, he's misguided; but if the hater-of-graveworshippers wont budge, then he too is misguided. Since neither of the two are willing to negotiate, neither can be guided. 2) Judging from the interviews ive seen from local people, theyre saying they are afraid of the guns, and hence are just standing and watching. They will simply rebuild it later, they say: "They had armed men guarding the door. Just like yesterday, the population did not react. They said we need to let them do what they want, hoping that someday we will rebuild the tombs," Tandina said. (SOURCE) This just shows that Ansar Dine did not discuss or educate, and did not receive approval before their destruction. It also proves the complete ineffectiveness of their tactics, seeing how people are just eager to rebuild what Ansar Dine destroyed. It also shows they have no political strategy for longevity by carrying out such actions in haste. 3) Inshallah 4) Respect the opinion of who? There are so many claiming authority, who decides who is best? Is Ansar Dine's the "legitimate opinion" simply since they have guns, the others dont? 5) "Militant" refers to one who is combative: the state fights its rebels, and the rebels fight the state. But the state does not fight its civilians/subjects. When the state does do that, that is called "tyranny". These are not Western concepts, tyranny exists anywhere. And this tyranny in the form "islamic state" has claimed many martyrs: Hussein, Zaid, Abu Hanifah, and most of the Imams that the shia worship today, and thousands others. They were all unjustly targetted by people who were tasked with the duty of islamic state/sharia. They were not following the "hukm of Allah", they were exercising their own hukm.
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