DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - The moment a missile hits the minaret of a Masjid.

**nabsgood** · 07-04-2012, 10:18 PM

1) Im more than happy to listen to the other side inshAllah

2) analysing things objectively is what we all should do inshAllah

4) you should respect the people in authrotity as long as they rule by islam, and ansar ad din clearly are not ruling by any other ideology. they hold the oppinion that graves shoudl be levelled and taht is based on daleel and athaar so shoudlnt we respect that opinion? Why do we have to respect one sides opinion but not the other

5) You cant just make a qiyaas like that, firstly what are you basing them being labelled extreme on? You cant blame them for sending people into the hands of the kuffar, in the last century we have thousands if not millions of murtads dispite most lands being full of sufism and ilm ul kalaam so you cant blame ridaa on others.

Scholars dont have political leadership so cant just go to a country and start smashing graves, where is teh hikmah in that? Ansar ad din do have the political position though and wish to implement the advice of the prophet SAW and they dont care what you or I or the UN world culttural heritage says, they only care about Allah SWT, they only wish to follow the sunnah of the prophet SAW who clearly told us to level graves and not build over them, and that was concerning prophets so what about saints who are less than prophets?

Clearly tehre is superstition in mali that is tantamount to kufr so why oppose the removal of this? Dont you think kufr is a bigger deal than tourist attractions? Isnt shirk a big deal? Isnt it the BIGGEST deal?

* Building tombs on graves is haram, and we abstain from this. But destroying it is the same thing. Both are an insult to the pious, the martyrs, and the Prophets. We say "Assalaamu Alaykum wa Ahlul Quburu", we dont come at them with hammers and axes.

* If agreed by the majority of the ulema and whoever was in charge of the property, then we may proceed with breaking. But for that to even happen, there needs to be correct ideology. The "salafist" anti-sufi ideology merely means replacing one form of deviation with another form; extreme tasawwuf being replaced by extreme-hatred of tasawwuf.

* We have seen what was done in Saudi. Numerous historical places were demolished, most of whom had nothing to do with tombs or graves. It is the same thing here.

* The fake-sufis may commit kuffar by worshipping graves, but atleast they do not come to my backyard or graveyard and start building one by force. Ansar Dine however, go to other people's backyards and start breaking their things.

* All of the above causes fitnah, and leads to the opposite side to also take up arms. This leads to bloodshed, which causes thousands of refugees and dead. The al-Shabaab experience is testament to that.

* Breaking their tombs or objects of devotion in such haste, will only cause them to be polarized. They will now stick even harder to their beliefs. You can never win them over this way.

* There is no proof that any negotiation had taken place, or that any of the custodians of the graves gave their approval. As such, we will look at the available evidence, and consider this a transgression.

* As far as the role of Islamic State goes, from what we have had, tombs were never demolished in the manner we see today. This started only under the Saudi state, not Islamic State or Khilafah.

07-04-2012, 10:18 PM	#21
nabsgood Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 385 Senior Member	1) Im more than happy to listen to the other side inshAllah 2) analysing things objectively is what we all should do inshAllah 4) you should respect the people in authrotity as long as they rule by islam, and ansar ad din clearly are not ruling by any other ideology. they hold the oppinion that graves shoudl be levelled and taht is based on daleel and athaar so shoudlnt we respect that opinion? Why do we have to respect one sides opinion but not the other 5) You cant just make a qiyaas like that, firstly what are you basing them being labelled extreme on? You cant blame them for sending people into the hands of the kuffar, in the last century we have thousands if not millions of murtads dispite most lands being full of sufism and ilm ul kalaam so you cant blame ridaa on others. Scholars dont have political leadership so cant just go to a country and start smashing graves, where is teh hikmah in that? Ansar ad din do have the political position though and wish to implement the advice of the prophet SAW and they dont care what you or I or the UN world culttural heritage says, they only care about Allah SWT, they only wish to follow the sunnah of the prophet SAW who clearly told us to level graves and not build over them, and that was concerning prophets so what about saints who are less than prophets? Clearly tehre is superstition in mali that is tantamount to kufr so why oppose the removal of this? Dont you think kufr is a bigger deal than tourist attractions? Isnt shirk a big deal? Isnt it the BIGGEST deal? * Building tombs on graves is haram, and we abstain from this. But destroying it is the same thing. Both are an insult to the pious, the martyrs, and the Prophets. We say "Assalaamu Alaykum wa Ahlul Quburu", we dont come at them with hammers and axes. * If agreed by the majority of the ulema and whoever was in charge of the property, then we may proceed with breaking. But for that to even happen, there needs to be correct ideology. The "salafist" anti-sufi ideology merely means replacing one form of deviation with another form; extreme tasawwuf being replaced by extreme-hatred of tasawwuf. * We have seen what was done in Saudi. Numerous historical places were demolished, most of whom had nothing to do with tombs or graves. It is the same thing here. * The fake-sufis may commit kuffar by worshipping graves, but atleast they do not come to my backyard or graveyard and start building one by force. Ansar Dine however, go to other people's backyards and start breaking their things. * All of the above causes fitnah, and leads to the opposite side to also take up arms. This leads to bloodshed, which causes thousands of refugees and dead. The al-Shabaab experience is testament to that. * Breaking their tombs or objects of devotion in such haste, will only cause them to be polarized. They will now stick even harder to their beliefs. You can never win them over this way. * There is no proof that any negotiation had taken place, or that any of the custodians of the graves gave their approval. As such, we will look at the available evidence, and consider this a transgression. * As far as the role of Islamic State goes, from what we have had, tombs were never demolished in the manner we see today. This started only under the Saudi state, not Islamic State or Khilafah.
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