DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - The moment a missile hits the minaret of a Masjid.

**satthackacibe** · 07-04-2012, 11:17 PM

akhi it is simply not true that grave demolitions began with saudi. I have provided countless narrations from classical scholars who advocated this.

Also its not the grave taht we dispise, and of course we have our sunnahs regarding how to behave with graves. The issue is the objects resurrected above the graves.

If Umar RAA dug up prophet danyals grave and moved it then surely this shows that it isnt a disrespect at all but in fact teh way of the salaf. When teh prophet SAW was on his death bed, in serious pain, he took effort to curse the jews and christians for taking the prphets graves as places of worship so clearly this is an important issue. what evidence is there supporting teh construction of erected tombs? The prophet SAW commanded Ali to destroy the tombs. With all this evidence FOR destorying tombs and NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER for erecting it, and all the classical scholars who supported demolishing graves, surely teh sensible thing for people to do, if they love the scholars of old as they claim, surely demolishing graves is teh right thing

cant you accept taht the muslim world is in a right state, its NOT OK how it currently is, so if people want to cling on to their rubbish whetehr it be mystoical doors that end the world, tombs for pilgrimage, secular courts, or colonial languages, surely we shoudl advicate the removal of this nonsense. Surely noone can surely believe we are ok how we are and teh mali rebels are somehow causing trouble and should leave the mulsim lands to do what they are currently doing.

In your previous posts you said it doesnt matter about scholars because they dont have "political leadership". So why now quote scholars? There are scholars both for and against smashing tombs. We cannot simply pick and choose. That is what ghair-muqallids do, which is why you're for that position. And, if Tawassul is akin to christians/jews worshipping their prophets, then salafi's extreme admiration for Imam Ibn Taymiyya is no different. Muslims today arent any better than those before us. But today, some muslims think they can be more pure than anyone else. We need to follow the example of our predecessors (imams and khilafah), and we need to weigh all sides of the scholars. Most scholars dont agree with this, infact its a topic thats rarely even discussed. We should do what is FARZ, not what is nafl/mubah. If it was needed, then there'd be thousands calling for it in South Asia, where there are scores of tombs/shrines. And there would be thousands of Talibs and Muqallids to follow their command.

All true muslims believe building them is wrong, because it can lead to shirk. And shirk doesnt drop from the sky, it comes from the misconceptions of the mind. If we can rectify the problems of the mind (ideology), then it doenst matter whether a tomb is there or not, people will not commit the shirk. For the State, they cannot look at everything from a utopian POV, if that were the case we would all be doing things left and right. I cannot just go outside and start asking "where can i buy slaves, concubines"? I have to cope with reality, and my ENVIRONMENT. What they did by breaking the tombs is create problem for themselves, not me. I dont even care for the graves. There's no point in taking this discussion further. Ive made my point, and you've made yours. Mine had more to do with the sustenance of the Islamic State, rather then the DREAM of a utopian version of it.

07-04-2012, 11:17 PM	#23
satthackacibe Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 486 Senior Member	akhi it is simply not true that grave demolitions began with saudi. I have provided countless narrations from classical scholars who advocated this. Also its not the grave taht we dispise, and of course we have our sunnahs regarding how to behave with graves. The issue is the objects resurrected above the graves. If Umar RAA dug up prophet danyals grave and moved it then surely this shows that it isnt a disrespect at all but in fact teh way of the salaf. When teh prophet SAW was on his death bed, in serious pain, he took effort to curse the jews and christians for taking the prphets graves as places of worship so clearly this is an important issue. what evidence is there supporting teh construction of erected tombs? The prophet SAW commanded Ali to destroy the tombs. With all this evidence FOR destorying tombs and NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER for erecting it, and all the classical scholars who supported demolishing graves, surely teh sensible thing for people to do, if they love the scholars of old as they claim, surely demolishing graves is teh right thing cant you accept taht the muslim world is in a right state, its NOT OK how it currently is, so if people want to cling on to their rubbish whetehr it be mystoical doors that end the world, tombs for pilgrimage, secular courts, or colonial languages, surely we shoudl advicate the removal of this nonsense. Surely noone can surely believe we are ok how we are and teh mali rebels are somehow causing trouble and should leave the mulsim lands to do what they are currently doing. In your previous posts you said it doesnt matter about scholars because they dont have "political leadership". So why now quote scholars? There are scholars both for and against smashing tombs. We cannot simply pick and choose. That is what ghair-muqallids do, which is why you're for that position. And, if Tawassul is akin to christians/jews worshipping their prophets, then salafi's extreme admiration for Imam Ibn Taymiyya is no different. Muslims today arent any better than those before us. But today, some muslims think they can be more pure than anyone else. We need to follow the example of our predecessors (imams and khilafah), and we need to weigh all sides of the scholars. Most scholars dont agree with this, infact its a topic thats rarely even discussed. We should do what is FARZ, not what is nafl/mubah. If it was needed, then there'd be thousands calling for it in South Asia, where there are scores of tombs/shrines. And there would be thousands of Talibs and Muqallids to follow their command. All true muslims believe building them is wrong, because it can lead to shirk. And shirk doesnt drop from the sky, it comes from the misconceptions of the mind. If we can rectify the problems of the mind (ideology), then it doenst matter whether a tomb is there or not, people will not commit the shirk. For the State, they cannot look at everything from a utopian POV, if that were the case we would all be doing things left and right. I cannot just go outside and start asking "where can i buy slaves, concubines"? I have to cope with reality, and my ENVIRONMENT. What they did by breaking the tombs is create problem for themselves, not me. I dont even care for the graves. There's no point in taking this discussion further. Ive made my point, and you've made yours. Mine had more to do with the sustenance of the Islamic State, rather then the DREAM of a utopian version of it.
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