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**Chooriwrocaey** · 02-21-2008, 10:27 AM

sidi Salman,

Hasil e Behes... The endavours of the khankahi mizaaj, may it be shadhiliyya or Chishtiyya is undoubted.. What is in discussion is Tablighiyya .. Which in fact, is not tablighiyyah but chishtiyyah more and any one of others from among naqshbandiya, qadriya and suhurwardiyyah etc..

Perhaps the reason why you have judged Tablighi Jamaat being inferior to any khankah is because you have only considered it Zahiri Surat and that too in Western World. or perhaps you have not come across Arifeen Kamileem within the Tablighis.. Mufti Memood Gangohi r.a was perhaps the most famous.. Majority of the Akabireen of Tablighi Jamaat in the Marakiz are indeed of high levels of ma'rifa. Albeit, we have less knowledge of it because of our ignorance. Maulana Inaamul Hassan r.a was a giant in Hadeeth along with his spiritual level.. but how many know of him being a Muhaddith? He chose to fulfil the task of tabligh to awaam and served a life sentence in it..

All the levels that you are talking about, after which a sheikh can be called a Kamil sheikh.. have been achieved by some chosen among the Tablighi Mashaikh as well. They are also aware of the vessel of ma'rifa. Hazrat Maulana Yunus Patel db. of Durban is a shining example for you.. He started out in Tabligh in a two man's team.. his excellence in Tabligh and in Tasawwuf in incomparible in whole of South Africa.

And indeeed you know as I do, that majority of those of true Ma'arifa.. who have indeed gone the full mile, are rarely exposed to the awaam like us. Thus for us to limit such mahaasil only to the specifics in the circles of traditional khankahi nizaams is naive.

A factoid : Numerous elders in Raiwind are such that they give 3 days per month to their homes... like awaam give 3 days per month to Tablighi work.. These elders are spend 25-27 days per month in the markaz under the honored Mashaikh... If you add that to even a meger 10 years of service under the sheikh.. The "condition" of being under the solace tutelage of the sheikh is aptly fulfilled. Now beyond that , Allah gives Ma'rifa , Laqaa, Baqaa, Fanaa.. to whome ever He so wishes..

salamu `alaykum sidi

I have no doubts in your words regarding the Akabir who participate in tabligh. My answers though were specifically regarding the general populace that engages in tabligh and how i feel that they consider the goals of tasawwuf to be limited in comparison to its true depth. For example, if we were to teach people fiqh, we would introduce them to what a school (madhab) is, why we follow one, the rank of the a'imma, the complexity of the science, and so forth. These are all required explanations to make an individual understand why we follow scholars, and what a true faqih is. If someone was taught that fiqh is merely hadith proof then such a person will have a limited exposure to the depth of fiqh and its vastness.

I have personally been exposed to tabligh for numerous years. Some of my teachers in fiqh and hadith were people who would go on tabligh regularly and abundantly. One of my ustadhs spent years in tabligh before he settled to teach the Islamic Sciences. I have nothing but love for the Akabir who engage in this noble practice. Granted that people of different exposures participate in tabligh, I still believe that it would be good to expound on the science of tasawwuf and its haqiqa, its infinitude, the rank of the awliya', the `arifin, and what it means to be "with" Allah as they were. This not only inspires people, but it makes them reflect on their states. Saying that the "outward" actions are what you should be doing is good, but its not the full picture. There is a vast difference between a person of taqwa and a person of ma`arifa. The former is not necessarily the latter, the latter though is the former.

Unfortunately, the reason why I speak as I do is because of the experience and results I myself have seen from the utter simplification of the haqiqat al-tasawwuf. I have seen so many people with ijaza in the tariq that simply fail to embody the definition of an `arif. They pray, they fast, they do dhikr, but their are many things in which they lack in: sins of the tongue, for example, caring about other peoples opinions, not fitting in with the attributes of the past `arifin, and so forth. You will ask: How can you judge? I cant answer this, because it is a private matter.

It is exactly like the manner of fiqh. I have heard numerous scholars - Deobandi and others - express concern about the "authority crisis" within traditional Islam. Now we have three year `alim courses and individuals come out of these programs with ijazat and are looked upto as scholars. Compare this, sidi, to the fuqaha of the past. What they learned in dozens of years, we do in three? What Mawlana Thanawi learnt in an 18 year or so darse nizami can now be done in six? It is concerning.

The same, unfortunately, is happening with tasawwuf. I have met a few shuyukh who state that they give or have seen ijaza given to people who are "people of taqwa though not `arifin". How can a non`arif guide to true ma`arifa? The reason given was that the states of the past knower's of Allah is very difficult for people to reach in our time, so we simplify tasawwuf. Subhanallah. But people, though, will think these individuals are ones who traversed the path all the way to Allah.

This is why I have seen many shuyukh, such as my own, speak of the realities of this science and its true meaning and rank. How it is not easy, and calls for immense effort. The meaning of an ijaza, the meaning of taqwa, wilaya and so on. They go into the books of the past `arifin and explain their words in light of the Qur'an and sunna. It is just levels and levels and levels of maqamat that puts one into a state of awe and simple admiration and love for such people. Wallahu A`lam.

Wasalam
Salman

02-21-2008, 10:27 AM	#33
Chooriwrocaey Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 463 Senior Member	sidi Salman, Hasil e Behes... The endavours of the khankahi mizaaj, may it be shadhiliyya or Chishtiyya is undoubted.. What is in discussion is Tablighiyya .. Which in fact, is not tablighiyyah but chishtiyyah more and any one of others from among naqshbandiya, qadriya and suhurwardiyyah etc.. Perhaps the reason why you have judged Tablighi Jamaat being inferior to any khankah is because you have only considered it Zahiri Surat and that too in Western World. or perhaps you have not come across Arifeen Kamileem within the Tablighis.. Mufti Memood Gangohi r.a was perhaps the most famous.. Majority of the Akabireen of Tablighi Jamaat in the Marakiz are indeed of high levels of ma'rifa. Albeit, we have less knowledge of it because of our ignorance. Maulana Inaamul Hassan r.a was a giant in Hadeeth along with his spiritual level.. but how many know of him being a Muhaddith? He chose to fulfil the task of tabligh to awaam and served a life sentence in it.. All the levels that you are talking about, after which a sheikh can be called a Kamil sheikh.. have been achieved by some chosen among the Tablighi Mashaikh as well. They are also aware of the vessel of ma'rifa. Hazrat Maulana Yunus Patel db. of Durban is a shining example for you.. He started out in Tabligh in a two man's team.. his excellence in Tabligh and in Tasawwuf in incomparible in whole of South Africa. And indeeed you know as I do, that majority of those of true Ma'arifa.. who have indeed gone the full mile, are rarely exposed to the awaam like us. Thus for us to limit such mahaasil only to the specifics in the circles of traditional khankahi nizaams is naive. A factoid : Numerous elders in Raiwind are such that they give 3 days per month to their homes... like awaam give 3 days per month to Tablighi work.. These elders are spend 25-27 days per month in the markaz under the honored Mashaikh... If you add that to even a meger 10 years of service under the sheikh.. The "condition" of being under the solace tutelage of the sheikh is aptly fulfilled. Now beyond that , Allah gives Ma'rifa , Laqaa, Baqaa, Fanaa.. to whome ever He so wishes.. salamu `alaykum sidi I have no doubts in your words regarding the Akabir who participate in tabligh. My answers though were specifically regarding the general populace that engages in tabligh and how i feel that they consider the goals of tasawwuf to be limited in comparison to its true depth. For example, if we were to teach people fiqh, we would introduce them to what a school (madhab) is, why we follow one, the rank of the a'imma, the complexity of the science, and so forth. These are all required explanations to make an individual understand why we follow scholars, and what a true faqih is. If someone was taught that fiqh is merely hadith proof then such a person will have a limited exposure to the depth of fiqh and its vastness. I have personally been exposed to tabligh for numerous years. Some of my teachers in fiqh and hadith were people who would go on tabligh regularly and abundantly. One of my ustadhs spent years in tabligh before he settled to teach the Islamic Sciences. I have nothing but love for the Akabir who engage in this noble practice. Granted that people of different exposures participate in tabligh, I still believe that it would be good to expound on the science of tasawwuf and its haqiqa, its infinitude, the rank of the awliya', the `arifin, and what it means to be "with" Allah as they were. This not only inspires people, but it makes them reflect on their states. Saying that the "outward" actions are what you should be doing is good, but its not the full picture. There is a vast difference between a person of taqwa and a person of ma`arifa. The former is not necessarily the latter, the latter though is the former. Unfortunately, the reason why I speak as I do is because of the experience and results I myself have seen from the utter simplification of the haqiqat al-tasawwuf. I have seen so many people with ijaza in the tariq that simply fail to embody the definition of an `arif. They pray, they fast, they do dhikr, but their are many things in which they lack in: sins of the tongue, for example, caring about other peoples opinions, not fitting in with the attributes of the past `arifin, and so forth. You will ask: How can you judge? I cant answer this, because it is a private matter. It is exactly like the manner of fiqh. I have heard numerous scholars - Deobandi and others - express concern about the "authority crisis" within traditional Islam. Now we have three year `alim courses and individuals come out of these programs with ijazat and are looked upto as scholars. Compare this, sidi, to the fuqaha of the past. What they learned in dozens of years, we do in three? What Mawlana Thanawi learnt in an 18 year or so darse nizami can now be done in six? It is concerning. The same, unfortunately, is happening with tasawwuf. I have met a few shuyukh who state that they give or have seen ijaza given to people who are "people of taqwa though not `arifin". How can a non`arif guide to true ma`arifa? The reason given was that the states of the past knower's of Allah is very difficult for people to reach in our time, so we simplify tasawwuf. Subhanallah. But people, though, will think these individuals are ones who traversed the path all the way to Allah. This is why I have seen many shuyukh, such as my own, speak of the realities of this science and its true meaning and rank. How it is not easy, and calls for immense effort. The meaning of an ijaza, the meaning of taqwa, wilaya and so on. They go into the books of the past `arifin and explain their words in light of the Qur'an and sunna. It is just levels and levels and levels of maqamat that puts one into a state of awe and simple admiration and love for such people. Wallahu A`lam. Wasalam Salman
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