[mrllxp]

Asalamu Aleikum -- i am shia but i come in peace - i have a question plz answer truthfully - i also want to know which side is actually right

didnt Muawiyah used to curse Imam Ali عليه السلام


This hadith has been narrated. on the authority of Shu'ba with the same chain of transmitters. Amir b. Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported on the authority of his father that Muawiya b. Abi Sufyin appointed Sa'd as the Governor and said: What prevents you from abusing Abu Turab (Hadrat 'Ali), whereupon be said: It is because of three things which I remember Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said about him that I would not abuse him and even if I find one of those three things for me, it would be more dear to me than the red camelg. I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) say about 'Ali as he left behind hrin in one of his campaigns (that was Tabuk). 'All said to him: Allah's Messenger, you leave me behind along with women and children. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to him: Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses but with this exception that there is no prophethood after me. And I (also) heard him say on the Day of Khaibar: I would certainly give this standard to a person who loves Allah and his Messenger and Allah and his Messenger love him too. He (the narrator) said: We have been anxiously waiting for it, when he (the Holy Prophet) said: Call 'Ali. He was called and his eyes were inflamed. He applied saliva to his eyes and handed over the standard to him, and Allah gave him victory. (The third occasion is this) when the (following) verse was revealed:" Let us summon our children and your children." Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) called 'Ali, Fitima, Hasan and Husain and said: O Allah, they are my family. (Bukhari, Muslim) {hadees is sahih}

Imam Al-Qurtubi said: “The most authentic narration used is his (i.e. Mu’awiyah) saying to Sa’d b. Abi Waqas: What prevented you from insulting Abu Turab? And this is not [in any way] a declaration that he asked him to insult [him], rather it just was an inquiry about why he didn’t”.

Imam Al-Nawawi mentions something similar in his commentation on the tradition. He says: “It might have been that Sa’d was among a group who used to insult Ali [ra], and So the inquiry of Mu’awiya [ra], according to this understanding would be: What prevented you, O Sa’d, from insulting Ali, when everyone around you was doing it.”

Rather we should ponder over that, what would have stopped Mu’awiya [ra] from putting a punishment on Sa’d [ra] if he had ordered for Ali [ra] to be insulted and Sa’d [ra] refused? Mu’awaiya [ra] was the Caliphate at the time, so what would stop him? And with this, no punishment or penalty was placed on Sa’d [ra].

Rather we see that Mu’awiya refered to Ali [ra] as Abu Turab, the most beloved Kunya to Ali [ra], since it was given to him by the Prophet of Allah. Let us present it to you, (Sahi bukhari 8.297): Narrated Sahl bin Sa`d: There was no name dearer to `Ali than his nickname Abu Turab (the father of dust). He used to feel happy whenever he was called by this name.

The confusion stems from the fact that it says:

أمر معاوية بن أبي سفيان سعدا فقال ما منعك أن تسب أبا التراب
Translation: Muawiya bin abi Sufyan commanded Saad, asking him: what prevented you from insulting Abu Turab?

Now a typical liar would translate this as “Muawiya ordered Saad to insult Abu Turab” but anyone can see that is not what is written, even though it could have very easily been written differently if Muawiya was truly commanding someone to insult someone.

And of course, Saad responds by saying all the great things about Ali (ra) and Muawiya (ra) doesn’t object at all. Lastly, Justice and Trustworthiness are high caliber qualities. Muaawiya(ra) was also a highly political and intelligent person. Would he not realize that such of his statements(if he did say those supposedly) could be harmful to his political stability? Kufa was a den for Ali(ra). lovers. Even a lowly politician would not do something like this as it would be simply encouraging the lovers of Ali r.a to rebel against his govt.

Note: Arabic word in the narrations “Sabb” which means to “abuse” and not to “curse”. curse means la’an and this word was not used in the narration.

"On his way to Hajj, Sa'd met Mu'awiya and his companions mentioned `Ali upon which Mu'awiya showed disrespect towards `Ali, Sa'd got angry and asked 'why do you say such things?” (Ibn Maja ) { Hadees is sahih} his narration is weak and unreliable because the chain of this narration contains: “Abdulrahman b. Saabit” who Yahya b. Maeen said: “He did not hear directly from Sa’d”, and in this narration he is narrating from Sa’d, so there is an unknown between them, and him not being known weakens this narration.
حدثنا : ‏ ‏علي بن محمد ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏أبو معاوية ‏ ، حدثنا : ‏ ‏موسى بن مسلم ‏ ‏، عن ‏ ‏إبن سابط وهو عبد الرحمن ‏ ‏، عن ‏ ‏سعد بن أبي وقاص ، قال : قدم ‏ ‏معاوية ‏ ‏في بعض حجاته فدخل عليه ‏ ‏سعد ‏ ‏فذكروا ‏ ‏علياً ‏ ‏فنال منه فغضب ‏ ‏سعد

قيل ليحيى بن معين سمع عبد الرحمن من سعد بن أبي وقاص؟
قال: لا. قيل: من أبي أمامة؟
قال: لا. قيل: من جابر؟
قال: لا؛ هو مرسل»
تهذيب التهذيب6/180 ترجمة رقم361

Another point to be mentioned is that you can even notice a difference between the two narrations of the encounter (the one in Muslim and the other). While this should be the encounter, you would notice that in the first Sa’d mentions the qualities of Ali after a direct question from Mu’awiya, while in the second he mentioned them from himself to rebuke Mu’awiya for his insults, which in itself would cast doubts in the other narrations not in Sahi Muslim. [Refer too: Risalah Jawabiyah 3ala Risalat Ustad Shi3ee]

A narration attributed to Sahl ibn Sa'd reports:
“ A person from the offspring of Marwan was appointed as the governor of Medina. He called Sahl ibn Sa'd and ordered him to abuse Ali. Sahl refused to do that. He (the governor) said to him: If you do not agree to it (at least) say: May Allah curse Abu Turab. Sahl said: There was no name dearer to Ali than Abu Turab (for it was given to him by the Holy Prophet himself) and he felt delighted when he was called by this name. He (the governor) said to him: Narrate to us the story of his being named as Abu Turab. He said: Allah's Messenger came to the house of Fatima and he did not find 'Ali in the house; whereupon he said: Where is your uncle's son? She said: (There cropped up something) between me and him which had annoyed him with me. He went out and did not rest here. Allah's Messenger said to a person to find out where he was. He came and said: Allah's Messenger, he is sleeping in the mosque. Allah's Messenger came to him and found him lying in the mosque and saw that his mantle had slipped from his back and his back was covered with dust and Allah's Messenger began to wipe it away from him (from the body of Hadrat 'Ali) saying: Get up, covered with dust (Arabic:Abu Turab); get up, covered with dust. ” (Muslim ) This is from the utmost ignorance, since Mu’awiya was from the offsprings of Sufyan, not the offsprings of Marwan! And then where is the name of Mu’awiya mentioned in this tradition?

Secondly, the one who gave that order is not a Companion of the Prophet(saw) nor what you call “Sunnah cursing Imam Ali” but a member of a fitna group about whom Abu Hurayra said: “By the One in Whose hand is my soul, there will soon come a time upon people when the flock of sheep will be dearer to its owner than all the house of Marwan.” Imam Malik narrates it in al-Muwatta’.

Moreover if the shias are willing to use this narration in any way, then we hope they will not show their double standards here. Because in this narration we find that, there used to be differences even in the life of Ali(ra) and Fatima(ra), such that Ali(ra) got angry with Fatima(ra) and left the house, as affirmed by the lover of Ali(ra).

my question is if Muawiya fought with Imam Ali عليه السلام first then almost had battle with Imam Hassan عليه السلام and he also broke the treaty between him and Imam Hassan عليه السلام then after muawiya's death caliphate will either go to Imam Hassan or Hussain عليه السلام - No the treaty didn't state that Caliphate after death of Muawiya(ra) will go to Hussain(ra). But it was ONLY specific to Hassan(ra). BUt Hassan(ra) died before Muawiya(ra), so the allegation that Muawiya(ra) broke the treaty is invalid.

he also used to abuse Imam Ali عليه السلام then whats the reason you praise him - there must be a reason Muawiya is given much importance in Sunnism - plzz answer in polite way i am not here to debate or fight - i just want to get information -- and those who dont know answers plzz dont answer only those with knowledge answer but plzz politely Muawiya(ra) acknowledged the superiority of hz ali(ra) and his view towards Hassan(ra) and hussain(ra).

1. Al-Thahabi narrated in “Sayr A’alam Al-Nubala’a” from Ya’ali bin Ubayd from his father who says: (Abu Muslim Al-Khulani and some others went to Mu’awiyah and asked him: “Do you dispute Ali or are you equal to him? Mu’awiyah answered: “By Allah no. I know he is better than I am, and he has the right to rule, but do not you know that Uthman was killed as an innocent? And I am his cousin and the seeker of his revenge. Therefore go to Ali and tell him to send me Uthman’s murderers then I will obey him.” They went to Ali and talked to him, but Ali refused to hand in Uthman’s murderers to Mu’awiyah.) [ Sayr A’alam Al-Nubala’a, vol.3, p.140, the examiner of the book said that its narrators are trustworthy]

Comment: This was the true and real view of Muawiya(ra) regarding Ali(ra), which the shian e dajjal never try to bring up. Because it will uncover the false propagands against hz muawiya(ra) since the time of their Imams. Here we find that Muawiya(ra) considered ali(ra) better than him, because he clearly said that he was demanding Qisas for martydon of Uthman(ra), which was his right according to shariah. He even said that if Ali(ra) handovers the killers of Uthman(ra) he will obey him.

2. Muawiyah Radhi Allaahu Ta’ala ‘anh said: “Ali is better and more virtuous than me and I differ from him only in the matter of qisaas of Uthmaan (Radhi Allaahu Ta’ala ‘anh) and if he takes the qisaas of the blood of uthmaan I will be the first of the people of syria to make bayah to him” [al-Bidayatu wan Nihaayah page 129,259 vol 7]

Comment: We find a similar narration here, where Muawiya(ra) himself testifies that Ali(ra) was more virtues than him. And if Ali(ra) handovers the killers of Uthman(ra) he would be the first person to make Bayah to him from people of Syria.

3.

قال ابن كثير: « وقد ورد من غير وجه: أن أبا مسلم الخولاني وجماعة معه دخلوا على معاوية فقالوا له: هل تنازع علياً أم أنت مثله؟ فقال: والله إني لأعلم أنه خير مني وأفضل، وأحق بالأمر مني…).(1) الخبر
Ibn Katheer said that: Abu Muslim Al-Khawalani and a group with him, entered on Mu’awiyah and said to him: “Are you competing with Ali, or [do you think that] you are like him?” So he replied: “By Allah, I know that he is better than me, and more virtuous ...”.[Al bidaya wal nihaya 132/8]

4.
مُعَاوِيَةَ يَقُوْلُ
لَوْ أَنَّ عَلِيّاً لَمْ يَفْعَلْ مَا فَعَلَ، ثُمَّ كَانَ فِي غَارٍ، لَذَهَبَ النَّاسُ إِلَيْهِ حَتَّى يَسْتَخْرِجُوْهُ مِنْهُ

4. Hisham bin Ammar reports that Muawiyah said on the virtues of Ali “Even if Ali had decided to seclude himself in a cave, people would have still sought him out and brought him back to the public.[Siyar A'lam an-Nabula', 5/147]

Comment: This shows that how much important was the presence of Ali(ra) in ummah in the sight of Muawiya(ra), because if Ali(ra) didn’t help people in solving fiqh issues then it would have been very problematic for people.(since he was the best living jurist at that time). This is even evident from Muawiya(ra) specifically asking people to ASK ALi(ra) to clear his doubts in fiqh matters.

5.

1893 – وأنبأنا ابن ناجية ، أيضا ، قال : حدثنا حسين بن مهدي الأبلي قال : حدثنا عبد الرزاق قال : أنبأنا معمر ، عن الزهري قال : لما قتل علي بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه وجاء الحسن بن علي رضي الله عنهما إلى معاوية فقال له معاوية : لو لم يكن لك فضل على يزيد إلا أن أمك امرأة من قريش وأمه امرأة من كلب لكان لك عليه فضل ، فكيف وأمك فاطمة بنت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم

5. 1893 From the way of Al-Zuhri, he said: When Ali ibn Abi Talib (Radiya Allah ‘Anh) was killed, Al Hasan ibn Ali (Radiya Allah ‘Anhuma) came to Mu’awiya. Mu’awiya said to him: If your only virtue over Yazeed was that your mother is a woman from Quraysh and his mother is a woman from [the tribe of] Kalb then that would have been a sufficient virtue for you over him, how then when your mother is Fatima daughter of the Messenger of Allah (Salah Allah ‘Alaihi wa Salam) [Al-Sharee'ah by Al-Ajurri, died in 360 AH]

Comment: Just see how Muawiyah(ra) respects and honors Hassan(ra). He himself proves how Hassan(ra) was superior to Yazeed. And Even declares that Fatima(ra) was superior to his wife.

6. Muawiya said to Yazeed: Do honor his (i.e Hussain’s) relation to the Prophet (s) because you should know that his father is better than your father and his mother is better than your mother. [shia book, Maqtal abi makhnaf p. 19.]

Comment: Here Hz muawiya(ra) himself testifies that Ali(ra) was better than Muawiya(ra) and Fatima(ra) was better than wife of Muawiya(ra)

7
و امـّا الحسين فـقـد عـرفـت حظّه مـن رسول الله و هو مـن لحم رسول اللّه و دمـه و قـد عـلمـت لا مـحالة انّ اءهل العراق سيخرجونه اليهم ثمّ يخذلونه و يضيّعـونه ، فـان ظفـرت به فـاعـرف حقـّه و مـنزلة مـن رسول اللّه و لا تـواءخـذه بفـعـله ، و مـع ذلك فـانّ لنا به خلطة و رحما و ايّاك ان تناله بسوء او يرى منك مكروها.
- بحار ج 44 / ص 311-. حيات الامـام الحسين ج 2، ص 236. كامل ابن اثير ج 4، ص 6. طبرى ج 7، ص 196 و 217. ينابيع الموده ص 333.

7. Muawiya(ra) said to his son:“You know what relation Imâm Husayn ‘radiy-Allâhu ’anh’ is to the Messenger of Allah. He is a part from the beloved Prophet’s blessed body. He is an offspring from the flesh and blood of that most honourable person. I understand that the inhabitants of Iraq invite him to go there and be with them. But they will not help him; they will leave him alone. If he should fall into your hands, behave in appreciation of his value! Remember the closeness and affection of the Messenger of Allah ‘sall-Allâhu ’alaihi wa sallam’ to him! Do not get back at him for his behaviour! Mind you don’t break the substantial ties I have established between him and us! Be extra careful lest you should hurt or offend him!” This advice of Hadrat Mu’âwiya’s to (his son) Yazîd is written in shia books like bihar al anwar, etc).]

8.First from Tabari

ت قال أحمد قال على عن جويرية بن أسماء أن بسر بن أبى أرطاة نال من
على عند معاوية وزيد بن عمر بن الخطاب جالس فعلاه بعصا فشجه فقال معاوية لزيد عمدت إلى شيخ من قريش سيد أهل الشأم فضربته وأقبل على بسر فقال تشتم عليا وهو جده وابن الفاروق على رءوس الناس أو كنت ترى أنه يصبر على ذلك ثم أرضاهما جميعا قال وقال معاوية إنى لارفع نفسي من أن يكون ذنب أعظم من عفوى وجهل أكثر من حلمي أو عورة لا أواريها بستري أو إساءة أكثر من إحساني قال وقال معاوية زين الشريف العفاف قال وقال معاوية ما من شئ أحب إلى من عين خرارة في أرض خوارة فقال عمرو بن العاص ما من شئ أحب إلى من أن أبيت عروسا بعقيلة من عقائل العرب فقال وردان مولى عمرو بن العاص ما من شئ أحب إلى من الافضال على الاخوان فقال معاوية أنا أحق بهذا منك قال ما تحب فافعل
Ahmed said that Ali bin Juwairya bin Asma said that Bisr bin abi Artaa said bad things about Ali in Muwaiya’s presence while Zaid bin Umar bin Alkhattab was sitting so he got up with a stick and hit his head. Then Muwaiya said to Zaid: you came to a Sheikh from Quraish, master of the people of Syria and hit him?! Then he went to Bisr and said: you verbally abuse Ali and he is his grandfather, and the son of Farooq (Umar) is above the heads of the people. did you believe that he be patient with that?! Then he reconciled between them. And Muwaiya said: It’s not fitting that a fault be greater than my forgiveness or ignorance greater than my forebearance, or a shame which I do not conceal with my veil, or malice greater than my benevolence, and Muawiya also said: The most noble person is the generous one. And he also said: nothing is more loved by me than a plentiful spring in a desert land. And Amru bin al Aas said: nothing is more beloved to me than to spend a night newly married by one of the Arab families. Wirdan the servant of Amro said: Nothing is more loved by me than being kind to the brothers. Then Muwaiya said: I have more right in this than you. He said: Is there anything you’d like so I can serve you? [(At-Tabari Vol. 4 Pg 248) & (Ibn Atheer Vol 4 Pg 5)]

Comment: Muawiya(ra) scolded the person who abused Ali(ra) and neither did he encourage that person to do that.


This is affirmed by this fact, that hz muawiya(ra) used to ask hz ali(ra) questions.

1. muawatta Book 36, Number 36.19.18: Malik related to me from Yahya ibn Said from Said ibn al−Musayyab that a Syrian man called Ibn Khaybari found a man with his wife and killed him, or killed them both. Muawiya ibn Abi Sufyan found it difficult to make a decision and he wrote to Abu Musa al−Ashari to ask Ali ibn Abi Talib for him about that. So Abu Musa asked Ali ibn Abi Talib and AIi said to him, “Is this thing in my land? I adjure you, you must tell me.” Abu Musa explained to him how Muawiya ibn Abi Sufyan had written him to ask Ali about it. Ali said, “I am Abu Hasan. If he does not bring four witnesses, then let him be completely handed over,” (to the relatives of the murdered man).

Refer this article:
http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress....and-muawiyara/