[mymnarorump]

Originally posted by Wycoff
Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions!

I have a few more for you. I understand that these questions relate to more esoteric points of doctrine, points that might not be well developed. I find them necessary to ask, though, because I can't understand Mormonism without having a good sense of these answers. It's my pleasure. Your latest questions are indeed a bit more esoteric, so I took the liberty of showing them to my best friend Robert. He is also a returned missionary and provides some good insights. He has consented to having his answers posted online, so I've included them with my own.

Originally posted by Wycoff
If I understand you correctly, worshipping Jesus is necessary for us to become Gods.

1- Was Jesus actually a manifestation of God / one side of God, or was he a man? Alexander: We believe Jesus to be the Son of God. Some denominations interpret this to mean He was some aspect of God the Father incarnated as Christ. Mormons do not believe that.

Rather, we believe that Jesus Christ is the literal Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh, a separate and distinct individual who in His mortal existence had both an aspect of the divine and of His mortality.

Robert: Christ was literally the son of God the Father (a separate person) and Mary, as such He was both mortal and divine. So in short, during His mortal ministry He was more than a man.

Originally posted by Wycoff
2- If he was a man, then why is he significant to us? If the logic holds- If you a great enough man you become a god and create your own world- why is Jesus, as the perfect man of our world- still significant to our world? Wouldn't he be the creator of his own world / universe, and be God there (like our God presumably did)? Or was the Judeo-Christian God the Jesus of his own world, the advocate to his God but also great enough to become the creator of his own world? Alexander: As the Son of God, He was both a mortal man, and yet more than a man. You could simply say He was half-divine. Here's where another principle comes in, called "Divine Investiture of Authority." God the Father invested Christ with the authority to act for Him and to carry out his divine commission, namely His Resurrection and Atonement.

However, since Jesus was in the same stage of existence as we are, He had yet to become an immortal, exalted being. Now that He is resurrected, He still serves as our Advocate with God the Father. On the Judgment Day, it is He who will judge us for our sins, since that is His place as our Redeemer. We have to go through Him to become exalted. Once His work in this stage of progression is complete, He will presumably move on to create worlds along with all those exalted through His sacrifice.

The Apostle Paul says something significant in his Epistle to the Romans about both Christ's and our roles regarding this subject:
"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us." - Romans 8:16-18

Robert: The logic doesn't hold because it has nothing to do with how great you are. All of God's children are his offspring and have the capacity to become like him if they do as he has commanded. Christ is our elder brother, but in the same step of eternal development as we are. We, Christ included, will all be heirs of all the Father has if we follow the commandments and endure to the end. Christ is our exemplar, and he also has a unique position as the Savior of the world, but neither of those will put him ahead of anyone else who becomes an heir of all the Father has. Presumably, he will be the creator of his own world/universe just as will all those who inherit all the Father has.

Originally posted by Wycoff
3- Moreover, if someone else could live a perfectly life, then couldn't they become a God without Jesus? Afterall, if Jesus was just a man, wouldn't that be proof that it is possible for a man to live a perfect life without having Jesus as a special advocate? Alexander: Christ was more than a man. As such, he was able to live a totally perfect mortal life. We are weak, and thus commit sins all the time. This also brings in a principle we have heretofore not addressed, namely the Fall of Adam. We don't believe that we are held accountable for original sin, but we do believe that because of Adam's Fall we are born into a fallen state of existence where it is easy for us to commit sin. Through Christ's Atonement we are redeemed from the Fall.

The mission of Jesus Christ also allows us access to a great gift:
Free Agency - God the Father gave us the gift to make decisions for ourselves here on earth. Since He would not compel us to obey Him in all things, that means it is our choice if we want to obey God's commandments or not. However, that also means that we can and will make mistakes: sins. Christ's Atonement allows us to have our sins remitted, so that they will not prevent us from returning to live with God again. That is what is commonly called Salvation (from sin). However, in order to gain salvation, we have to follow the principles and ordinances I mentioned in one of my answers from the other day.

Robert: No one can live a perfect life. It is not possible. Since it is impossible, there is no point speculating what someone would do if they did it.

While looking over these answers, my wife Anna also had some comments to make, which I've included below.

Anna: Since Jesus was literally the Son of God, he was more than mortal men are. He was able to suffer the pains of the Atonement for our sins in Gethsemane and on Calvary, which no mere mortal could have accomplished. He knew his mission more clearly than we know ours and He had a much more intimate relationship with His Father in Heaven than most of us currently have. All of these factors combine to allow Jesus to attain perfection while on this Earth. The rest of us, since we are just mortals, will succumb to temptation and will sin throughout our lives. That's why we need Jesus.

Originally posted by Wycoff
4- If not, if you absolutely must believe in Jesus to become a God, then how did the Judeo-Christian God become God? He couldn't have believed in Jesus. Did he have his own "Jesus" and God? (the answer to this would have to be "yes" under the doctrine of eternal progression, wouldn't it?) If so, then why wouldn't we worship them instead? Why not worship whatever was at the beginning of the eternal progression rather than God and, especially Jesus, who are just creations of creations of creations of creations of... Alexander: We simply do not know the conditions of God the Father's mortal existence. I would speculate that there was a Savior figure in His mortality as well, who was invested with Their Heavenly Father's divine authority, but that has not been revealed. Some even speculate that our God was the Savior for His world, but that is completely irrelevant to us and our own salvation and exaltation.

The Atonement of Jesus Christ is absolutely necessary for the spirit children of God the Father to be saved and exalted, whether they were born on this Earth or on any others that He has or will yet create.

As for why we don't worship God the Father's God the Father etc., I like Robert's grandparents analogy (see below), that for the same reason one is raised by the parents that gave birth to him, we worship the God who fathered our Spirits and created our world and our first ancestors, Adam and Eve. However, I would say that since God's work and glory is the immortality and exaltation of His children, (and since this Godly work is the same for all who are exalted) that our very existence and potential exaltation is a fulfillment of the work and glory of countless other divine progenitors.

Of course that's just me theorizing here and not an official statement of doctrine.

Robert: I think that you are right in the first part, but as for why we don't worship farther up the eternal family tree... I don't know. I would guess it is similar to why you are closer to your parents than your grandparents, etc. You don't turn over your parental responsibilities to your parents just because they are older, wiser, or more experienced, I would say that it works the same way with God (but if I'm speculating here so I could easily be wrong).


So that's all of your questions answered to the best of our ability. I hope the multiple answers didn't overwhelm you, but since the questions were so esoteric I felt that hearing different perspectives would be useful. Let me know if you have any other questions.