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Dear all,

I accidentally chanced upon this thread while browsing the forum. I feel very upset as I write this, actually quite betrayed by my fellow monachos posters and Christian brethren. This is only a feeling however, and I will not take it for granted that it reflects anything other than my own insecurity and paranoia.

Nevertheless, the fact that this thread was initiated separately to the 'Temple in Jerusalem' thread, and yet in acknowledgment of being prompted by that thread, I think is significant. There was also talk of being boiled and flayed, hardly words indicating a dispassionate concern for unobtrusiveness.

I think in the 'Temple in Jerusalem' thread and my postings elsewhere on monachos, I've shown that, despite my Jewish origins, I am far from someone who fanatically promotes Zionism or unconditional, uncritical support of Judaism or Israel. I am also far from a critic of Orthodox Christianity. Hence I feel that the fact that the postings in this thread were not a continuation of the 'Temple in Jerusalem' thread, is significant. The word 'timid' in this separate thread title, also suggests that the initiator of this discussion perhaps feared to post anything on the the 'Temple in Jerusalem' thread - in case she got another flaying and boiling, perhaps? If that's the case, I want to assure her that, despite rumors, Jews do not boil or flay anyone (I can't speak for Protestants). And I simply would have been happier if she'd posted her question about Israel to the thread which prompted it, that's all. After all, whether the Orthodox Church as 'New Israel' necessarily means having a supercessionist attitude towards Judaism is the very question that thread is implicitly asking. I would like to believe that, even if the answer is an unqualified 'yes', then maybe the relationship of Orthodox Christianity to Judaism could still tolerate a little more elaboration.

As far as 'the Jew' as a symbol is concerned, Owen, you characteristically toss a fascinating notion at us, without adequately explaining what you mean. I think I'm getting it, and maybe even agreeing with it partly, but I need to hear more about what what you mean. As long as you are saying that spiritually there is 'the Jew' in all of us to consider, and you can also see that literal Jews need not necessarily or more frequently be any more 'Jewish' than Christians are, then I can perhaps go along with what you seem to be suggesting - but I also need to point out that a certain Mr A. Hitler was also quite fond of referring to 'the Jew', so maybe it would be better to come up with a different name for the spiritual condition. After all, 'the American' may describe much the same set of spiritual attitudes, but I'd understand it if Americans were offended by the coinage of such terms. More on 'symbol' and what we Orthodox mean by it, too, please!

In Christ
Byron