DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Mission accomplished: "Death to America" and "Death to Karzai".

**Scfdglkn** · 05-30-2006, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by Wezil
I think the government does exert some control outside Kabul - control enforced at the end of western rifle barrels.

I don't think the average Afghani (whatever that might be) wants us there and that the mission is ultimately doomed to failure. We are an occupyng force that eventually will decide we have paid too high a price and we will leave. It seems to be the history of Afghanistan and I fail to see why our mission there will end any differently. 1. at some level all govts control is based on force. When someone says govt X exerts no control otuside of Y, it usually means they exert no control even with rifle barrels

2. Yes, the desired endstate is that the govt of Afghanistan relies on its own forces. The Afghan National Army is far ahead of where it was in 2002, and far ahead of where many folks expected it to be. But it still relies on Western support against significant enemies.

3. Im sure the average Afghani wants Afghanistan to be able to rely on its own forces, and not on foreign forces. We want that too. I do not see evidence that the average Afghan wants us to leave now, or opposes the Kharzai govt. Your argument that they do seems to be based on a prior reasoning, and not on any data from Afghanistan (apart from yesterdays riot)

4. The price we are paying is not that high. Here in the US the price from Afghanistan is normally drowned out by news from Iraq. Now THERE you may be right, but I think as far as Afghanistan is concerned, there isnt a hint of a groundswell for withdrawl. Maybe the Canadians will withdraw. I dont know.

5. Whats different, of course, is that we are not there to colonize, as the British were, nor are we running the kind of occupation the USSR did. And this IS a democratic govt, and it DID succeed a Taliban govt that was almost universally hated in the northern, non-Pashtun half of the country, and was disliked by many Pashtun.

6. Eventually we WILL withdraw. And eventually Afghanistan will have a president who isnt named Kharzai. It might even by one of Kharzais political opponents, like Abu Sayaf, or Mohammed Khan. And said govt will likely balance among the US and other powers, including China and Russia. But it will NOT be a Taliban govt, and it will not provide a haven to Al Qaeeda. Thus we will not have failed.

05-30-2006, 11:29 PM	#23
Scfdglkn Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 502 Senior Member	Originally posted by Wezil I think the government does exert some control outside Kabul - control enforced at the end of western rifle barrels. I don't think the average Afghani (whatever that might be) wants us there and that the mission is ultimately doomed to failure. We are an occupyng force that eventually will decide we have paid too high a price and we will leave. It seems to be the history of Afghanistan and I fail to see why our mission there will end any differently. 1. at some level all govts control is based on force. When someone says govt X exerts no control otuside of Y, it usually means they exert no control even with rifle barrels 2. Yes, the desired endstate is that the govt of Afghanistan relies on its own forces. The Afghan National Army is far ahead of where it was in 2002, and far ahead of where many folks expected it to be. But it still relies on Western support against significant enemies. 3. Im sure the average Afghani wants Afghanistan to be able to rely on its own forces, and not on foreign forces. We want that too. I do not see evidence that the average Afghan wants us to leave now, or opposes the Kharzai govt. Your argument that they do seems to be based on a prior reasoning, and not on any data from Afghanistan (apart from yesterdays riot) 4. The price we are paying is not that high. Here in the US the price from Afghanistan is normally drowned out by news from Iraq. Now THERE you may be right, but I think as far as Afghanistan is concerned, there isnt a hint of a groundswell for withdrawl. Maybe the Canadians will withdraw. I dont know. 5. Whats different, of course, is that we are not there to colonize, as the British were, nor are we running the kind of occupation the USSR did. And this IS a democratic govt, and it DID succeed a Taliban govt that was almost universally hated in the northern, non-Pashtun half of the country, and was disliked by many Pashtun. 6. Eventually we WILL withdraw. And eventually Afghanistan will have a president who isnt named Kharzai. It might even by one of Kharzais political opponents, like Abu Sayaf, or Mohammed Khan. And said govt will likely balance among the US and other powers, including China and Russia. But it will NOT be a Taliban govt, and it will not provide a haven to Al Qaeeda. Thus we will not have failed.
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