DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Siddhas. Who were they? What did they practice and teach? --I

**Paul Bunyan** · 03-05-2011, 06:58 PM

Dear Shri Nacchinarkiniyan, I feel such stories are complete fakes, made up to inflate the supposed powers of seeming mendicants who may very well be merely suffering from some kind of mental disorder and nothing more.

Stopping trains by sitting near a bush taken from third-hand haigeographical account is very weak. Let them make a missing limb grow back or something. If these people have supernatural powers let them demonstrate it in a controlled environment in front of a skeptical audience. Circular logic to avoid such demonstration is not a proper stand to take.

All this would be harmless if it is confined to small pockets. However, according the legitimacy of academic discussion to such stories encourages superstitious beliefs among even those who must know better. IMO, promoting such superstitions is no service to no religion.

Cheers!

Strong terms. But I beg to disagree. These are beliefs. I am a believer. You are a skeptic or a non-believer.

Siddhars are well known for their psychic powers.

The controversy about the existence of psychic powers is very old. ESP, Telepathy , Telekinesis and so on. In fact in India we go even further. We believe that a man could harness the powers of nature and use it for various purposes. The term "Mantrikam" comes from that. You could call it Black magic.

There have been many reportings like the one I quoted about Mayandi Swamigal. Paul Brenton was one of the earliest to record such instances in his book "Search in Secret India." A number of books in English written by Western authors like Sadhus: Holy Men of India, by Dolf Hartsuiker. Published by Thames & Hudson, 1993, Sadhus, un voyage initiatique chez les ascètes de l'Inde, by Patrick Levy, Editions du Relié, 2009 have come out. There are many books published during the British rule. Many of these documented the psychic powers of sadhus.

A number of studies have taken place in the West and the erstwhile Soviet Union.

A number of studies have also been done by reputed institutions such as Defence Institute of Physiology and Allied Sciences (DIPAS) , All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS), National Institute of Mental Health and Neuro Sciences (NIMHANS). But these were mainly concentrated on the therapeutic powers of Yoga.

The book Psychic discoveries behind the Iron Curtain, by Sheila Ostrnder was a path breaking work. Studies in the U.S have all been oriented towards as to how to obtain these powers and use them for Military purposes. So most of the research remains secret.

I will show how even such researches will never convince the skeptics.

Swami Rama was studied at the Menninger Foundation in the spring and fall of 1970, and was alleged by some observers at the foundation to have telekinetically moved a knitting needle twice from a distance of five feet. Although Swami Rama wore a facemask and gown to prevent allegations that he moved the needle with his breath or body movements, and air vents in the room had been covered, at least one physician observer who was present at the time was not convinced and expressed the opinion that air movement was somehow the cause. --Wikipedia

Look at the way this is worded. It is only an allegation by some observers. Only one man has disagreed. No one has provided any evidence as to how it was done. So they have even denied the happening. He either moved it or not moved it. How can you term it as "alleged by some observers'. Let us face it. We can never convince the skeptics.

I am sure you could also quote from many sources.

The popularity or fascination of Siddhars in Tamil Nadu is mainly because of the psychic powers exhibited by them.

People especially in India believe in Psychic powers. Belief in the West is growing. It is not total disbelief like what it was 100 years or even 50years back.

We know of the so called Western Scientific knowldge. These are the people who propagated the idea that having a bath gives you tuberculosis and what not. We know of the Western Doctors who carried on a campaign against Breast feeding for a long period of time.

Religion is a set of Beliefs. Beliefs are called so because they can not be proved. What is normal belief or superstitious belief depends on the person. As the saying goes"My belief is Belief. Your belief is Superstition.

03-05-2011, 06:58 PM	#28
Paul Bunyan Join Date Jul 2007 Age 58 Posts 4,495 Senior Member	Dear Shri Nacchinarkiniyan, I feel such stories are complete fakes, made up to inflate the supposed powers of seeming mendicants who may very well be merely suffering from some kind of mental disorder and nothing more. Stopping trains by sitting near a bush taken from third-hand haigeographical account is very weak. Let them make a missing limb grow back or something. If these people have supernatural powers let them demonstrate it in a controlled environment in front of a skeptical audience. Circular logic to avoid such demonstration is not a proper stand to take. All this would be harmless if it is confined to small pockets. However, according the legitimacy of academic discussion to such stories encourages superstitious beliefs among even those who must know better. IMO, promoting such superstitions is no service to no religion. Cheers! Strong terms. But I beg to disagree. These are beliefs. I am a believer. You are a skeptic or a non-believer. Siddhars are well known for their psychic powers. The controversy about the existence of psychic powers is very old. ESP, Telepathy , Telekinesis and so on. In fact in India we go even further. We believe that a man could harness the powers of nature and use it for various purposes. The term "Mantrikam" comes from that. You could call it Black magic. There have been many reportings like the one I quoted about Mayandi Swamigal. Paul Brenton was one of the earliest to record such instances in his book "Search in Secret India." A number of books in English written by Western authors like Sadhus: Holy Men of India, by Dolf Hartsuiker. Published by Thames & Hudson, 1993, Sadhus, un voyage initiatique chez les ascètes de l'Inde, by Patrick Levy, Editions du Relié, 2009 have come out. There are many books published during the British rule. Many of these documented the psychic powers of sadhus. A number of studies have taken place in the West and the erstwhile Soviet Union. A number of studies have also been done by reputed institutions such as Defence Institute of Physiology and Allied Sciences (DIPAS) , All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS), National Institute of Mental Health and Neuro Sciences (NIMHANS). But these were mainly concentrated on the therapeutic powers of Yoga. The book Psychic discoveries behind the Iron Curtain, by Sheila Ostrnder was a path breaking work. Studies in the U.S have all been oriented towards as to how to obtain these powers and use them for Military purposes. So most of the research remains secret. I will show how even such researches will never convince the skeptics. Swami Rama was studied at the Menninger Foundation in the spring and fall of 1970, and was alleged by some observers at the foundation to have telekinetically moved a knitting needle twice from a distance of five feet. Although Swami Rama wore a facemask and gown to prevent allegations that he moved the needle with his breath or body movements, and air vents in the room had been covered, at least one physician observer who was present at the time was not convinced and expressed the opinion that air movement was somehow the cause. --Wikipedia Look at the way this is worded. It is only an allegation by some observers. Only one man has disagreed. No one has provided any evidence as to how it was done. So they have even denied the happening. He either moved it or not moved it. How can you term it as "alleged by some observers'. Let us face it. We can never convince the skeptics. I am sure you could also quote from many sources. The popularity or fascination of Siddhars in Tamil Nadu is mainly because of the psychic powers exhibited by them. People especially in India believe in Psychic powers. Belief in the West is growing. It is not total disbelief like what it was 100 years or even 50years back. We know of the so called Western Scientific knowldge. These are the people who propagated the idea that having a bath gives you tuberculosis and what not. We know of the Western Doctors who carried on a campaign against Breast feeding for a long period of time. Religion is a set of Beliefs. Beliefs are called so because they can not be proved. What is normal belief or superstitious belief depends on the person. As the saying goes"My belief is Belief. Your belief is Superstition.
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