[KJnbceja]

namaste Nara and Sangom.

Nara, I cited the cradle and child example about your interpretation in a jovial manner. Sorry if it has offended you. Please rest assured that since these days we know each other better and mutually respect our stand, I shall not intentionally ascribe any ulterior motives to you.

• About different metaphysical explanations, as you know, there are levels. I wouldn't hesitate to say that if the Abrahamic explanation of creation and universe is at the first step of the ladder, the Hindu explanations are at the apex, but you might differ in your opinion.

• In science too, different theories about the same phenomenon exist at various levels of acceptance. One example is Newton's theory of gravity and the various alternatives suggested to it (wiki). Physics or metaphysics, hierarchies prevail in all areas of knowledge, and are accepted by human minds at appropriate levels.

• Physics or metaphysics, all explanations are "made out of plain cloth" of the human mind. The yogi, trained in the aShTAnga yoga of body and mind, contemplates, meditates, knows and experiences the different levels of the same Absolute Truth and teaches them. His methods are open to every human being who is willing to exercise the body and mind in the discipline of yoga.

‣ The scientist too finds his answers only with his mind. He knows that all the readings related to color-shifts, energy levels and light points/streaks representing atomic and sub-atomic particles and their movements, are only kaleidoscopic patterns of energy, aggregated at different levels, and yet depends on the accuracy of these aggregations for his answer, rather than realize that it is only the human mind which makes these interpretations--not the instruments themselves.

‣ The difference between the yogi and the scientist lies in the fact that the yogi knows that everything happens only in the substratum of his consciousness and so he fits all his answers within the framework of that universal consciousness which is immanent in all physical, mental and intellectual phenomena.

‣ Just like the fact there is nothing intrinsically good or bad in the universe, there is no good or bad science or metaphysics--only different levels of findings--so there is actually no need for these two disciplines of knowledge to take hostile stands, since they are complementary to each other in the holistic picture. This is perhaps the reason that spiritually inclined minds care about science, although there is not much reciprocation from the other side.

About your helping me to find my voice, when I made my post no.10, I was not much clear as to what to reply to Sangom, but your post made things clearer for me that my reply was actually on the lines I wanted.

shrI Sangom, there are also fiascos with deadly consequences in science. As for your observation, "The crux of any value to any mantra is the reproducibility of its/their efficacy", I would add that it is subject to the disciplines of the human body and mind involved in the process. Where spiritual experiments fail as in the case you have indicated, it is probably more due to the deficiency of the discipline required of the body and mind rather than want of efficacy for the mantras, IMO.