This whole thread I believe was started with one single issue - that it was immensely difficult for (young) people to get their minds streamlined all by themselves and so we sought out to share opinions as to how this can be done in an efficient way. Now, with all the individual ideas received in the past few days, it looks like many (NOT all) want to form the opinion that a preceptor may not be that important. Then can we not invalidate this social issue/thread itself. If not it is a complete U-turn. If everything is logic, then everything needs to be matter. In Hinduism we concur that there is something that is beyond matter. The rational mind (eastern and the western ones), accept that there is something called metaphysical. The Guru helps us in both - in a synchronous way. Many of you might be aware of Object oriented techniques used in various industries. Like, we can drive a car, even if we had no idea of what made it work. Just because we had no idea what is behind the interfaces (encapsulation) given to us for driving, we cannot negate the fact, that there is something that makes the car work other than our driving. The engine does exist and it does require the initial spark of fire to start the process. Similarly, there is something in our body, other than matter (beyond logic or the realm of mind), which makes it work - life. The process of driving is easy, the process of living is also easy. But, if we need to make the car all on our own from scratch, we start with the invention of wheel. It has taken thousands of years before the engine was invented. We just have hundred in this life. If it takes thousands for just the invention of an engine through evolution, just imagine finding out about "life" all by ourselves. That might take many life cycles. Let's not forget, people shared ideas and opinions about the wheel, and other parts of automobile across generations before the final one made an automobile out of it. So, why do we have to delay our own process of understanding "life" by saying we would find it out all by our selves. Even, books do not help people become experts (even) in material professions. Well - doctors, lawyers, engineers don't try to become experts in their profession all by themselves for the same reason. We accept mentors (and/or universities) in material education, but should we say "no" when it comes to life education.