[Eagevawax]

http://www.audiblox2000.com/dyslexia...yslexia014.htm


The IQ tests along with other so called tests that allegedly measure potential and cognitive ability were created by bigoted, racist, eugenists with a serious ideological axe to grind so why do people keep using them for?

[PhilipBartew]

i tend to agree with you on this. the guy whoes name escapes me right now, lynn or something, did a bunch of testing world wide and concluded that richer the country the higher its iq per capita. this statement as it stands makes no sense since t economic status of a country depends on mostly exterior causes.

[MormefWrarebe]

Well, I remember when Attenborough went to some uncontacted tribe- I believe somewhere in SE Asia or the Philippines, and those people were only able to count to seven. Do you think they would be able to count to more if born into modern society? Do you think it was an inherent racial characteristic that prevented them form having the ability to think about larger numbers?

Another thing:


It is a stupid skit, but it does make a point.

[zlZ95pjt]

The Iq test was made to test childrens abilities.
Which it does well. It is used to help give a better idea to see if Kids at a young age need more special schooling or should be in gifted classes.

It does a good job of doing so. As Down sndrome children average 50-60 iq's.

while Great minds generally test 115 + iq's.

[Eltabaco]

The Iq test was made to test childrens abilities.
Which it does well. It is used to help give a better idea to see if Kids at a young age need more special schooling or should be in gifted classes.

It does a good job of doing so. As Down sndrome children average 50-60 iq's.

while Great minds generally test 115 + iq's.

Those tests show skills that are socialized and the result depends much on upbringing, stimulation of the child, education and similar factors.

Downs syndrom would test low and most kind of tests both theoretical and practical, so that they score low on IQ tests does not say much.

Great minds is mostly a social construct that means that those persons are good at certain skills that are sought after in a special cultural setting.

[huylibizonoff]

Those tests show skills that are socialized and the result depends much on upbringing, stimulation of the child, education and similar factors.

Downs syndrom would test low and most kind of tests both theoretical and practical, so that they score low on IQ tests does not say much.

Great minds is mostly a social construct that means that those persons are good at certain skills that are sought after in a special cultural setting.

Children have a higher iq than Adults usually.

Black Children generally have an iq much closer to white Children.

Then, Black adults or teens do to White adults or teens.

Why?
Well Blacks are born sooner, they walk quicker, they reach puberty quicker & they also reach menopause earlier.

Just like chimpanzees do.

Humans are born longer, walk slower, reach puberty later & reach menopause later.
Because Humans are so complex it takes longer for our complex brains to develope therefor we are born later & reach puberty later ect.

Which is why over time Blacks lag more in iq.

[Preegovesem]

Well, I remember when Attenborough went to some uncontacted tribe- I believe somewhere in SE Asia or the Philippines, and those people were only able to count to seven. Do you think they would be able to count to more if born into modern society? Do you think it was an inherent racial characteristic that prevented them form having the ability to think about larger numbers?.

I agree. Some of the Native Americans from Brazil counted only up to 3, and yet their "ethnic" brethren from Central America (the Maya) independently discovered the zero and precisely calculated the duration of the year. The latter were sedentary, and the former were hunter gatherers nomads, which may explain it to me to a large extent. The "ethnic" reason here does not really explain it, as they belonged basically to the same "cluster" so to say.

The Maya were able to calculate the length of the year to be 365.242 days (the modern value is 365.242198 days). http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/...thematics.html

[drislerfottor]

I agree. Some of the Native Amerians from Brazil counted only up to 3, and yet their "ethnic" brethren from Central America (the Maya) indedepently discovered the zero and precisely calculated the duration of the year. The latter were sedentary, and the former were hunter gatherers nomads, which may explain it to me to a large extent. The "ethnic" reason here does not really explain it, as they belonged basically to the same "cluster" so to say.


http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/...thematics.html

The Mayans had the white long skulled giant bearded go Kukulkan who bestowed civilization on them.

When he left children tried to elongate their heads like kukulkan did.

[Greapyjeory]

Children have a higher iq than Adults usually.

Black Children generally have an iq much closer to white Children.

Then, Black adults or teens do to White adults or teens.

Why?
Well Blacks are born sooner, they walk quicker, they reach puberty quicker & they also reach menopause earlier.

Just like chimpanzees do.

Humans are born longer, walk slower, reach puberty later & reach menopause later.
Because Humans are so complex it takes longer for our complex brains to develope therefor we are born later & reach puberty later ect.

Which is why over time Blacks lag more in iq.

Even children are the result of their environment, what intellectual stimulation they get, what they eat, what they learn and so on. Those environmental differencies are visible in an IQ test.
Also reaching puberty earlier or later is also dependant of environmental factors. For example Danish children are reaching puberty earlier and earlier. Maybe they (to use your logic) are regressing and becoming apes??

---------- Post added 2010-06-27 at 12:52 ----------

The Mayans had the white long skulled giant bearded go Kukulkan who bestowed civilization on them.

When he left children tried to elongate their heads like kukulkan did.

Not long ago, there were a lot of people up here in the nordic countries that could not count to seven, nor could they write or read. Today, nearly all people here can write and read and count to seven. And still the genetic makeup of the people is the same. So counting to seven, reading, writing and such things are skills that are learned, they are not genetically inherited.

[hoconnor6605]

I agree. Some of the Native Amerians from Brazil counted only up to 3, and yet their "ethnic" brethren from Central America (the Mayas) indedepently discovered the zero and precisely calculated the duration of the year. The latter were sedentary, and the former were hunter gatherers nomads, which may explain it to me to a large extent. The "ethnic" reason here does not really explain it, as they belonged basically to the same "cluster" so to say.

I can't believe that. Mapuches, for instance, have a decimal system ordered in a positional system. Incas have the same systems, as theirs quipus shows.

Anyways, as I always repeat, what the IQ test measures is the skills to solve abstract puzzles.

If you are good at crosswords, playing Chess, arithmetic, algebra, geometry or abstract music, of course you will do a lot better than a person that only plays basketball.

Even more, half of the puzzles are linguistic, so just imagine how difficult would be to solve them if the population measured is semi-analphabet or if speak a language different from the test.

Now, the test measures culture as much as rough intelligence because a simple reason: there are SOME cultures that prepares people for intellectual activities better than other. Which cultures? Don't you guess? Jewish and Asian cultures are a lot more concerned with the development of the abstract thinking than Western or Third World cultures.

Samples:

(1) Jewish kids in a traditional family learn to read pretty early, because theirs need to understand the Torah. They usually know at least a bit of a Semitic language, and they are functionally billinguals. Besides, they learn history from the Bible.
Even more, Jewish tradition has the Kabalah as an integral part of the culture. And Kabalah is a mystic numerology. So, do you wonder from where the love to numbers come from?
When Jews finally comfront the topics tought in the Western curricula they are already familiarized with history, linguistic, mathematics, traditions, psycology, etc. So no wonder they do well.

(2) Asians love mathematics, chess and abstract thinking. Solving puzzles and playing games like Chinese chess, Go or standard chess is part of theirs milenary traditions. They are also exposed to extremely complex languages like ideographic Mandarin, that requires a lot of effort to learn, even for locals.
At the end, when they are confront to western syllabus, things looks relatively easy.
If you add that to a military discipline to studies, you will see why Asians succeed where Westerners fail.

There are differences in IQ? Yes, there are, but there are more than a reason why they show.

[teridbruse]

I can't believe that.

An interesting article about it
Does a group of indigenous South Americans hold the key to our relationship with maths? Here, an extract from an enlightening new book explains why it just might. When I walked into Pierre Pica's cramped Paris apartment, I was overwhelmed by the stench of mosquito repellent. Pica, a linguist, had just returned from spending five months with a community of Indians in the Amazon rainforest, and he was disinfecting the gifts he had brought back. I asked how the trip had been. "Difficult," he replied.For the last 10 years, the focus of Pica's work has been the Munduruku: an indigenous group of about 7,000 people in the Brazilian Amazon whose language has no tenses, no plurals and no words for numbers beyond five. To get to the Munduruku, Pica had to wait for some locals to take him to their territory by canoe."How long did you wait?" I inquired."I waited quite a lot. But don't ask me how many days.""So, was it a couple of days?" I suggested tentatively. A few seconds passed as he furrowed his brow: "It was about two weeks."The more I pushed Pica for facts and figures, the more reluctant he was to provide them. "When I come back from Amazonia, I lose sense of time and sense of number, and perhaps sense of space." This inability to give me quantitative data was part of his culture shock. He had spent so long with people who can barely count that he had lost the ability to describe the world in terms of numbers.No one knows for certain, but numbers are probably no more than about 10,000 years old. By this, I mean a working system of words and symbols for numbers. One theory is that such a practice emerged together with agriculture and trade, as numbers were an indispensable tool for taking stock and making sure you were not ripped off.Numbers are so prevalent in our lives that it is hard to imagine how people survive without them. Yet while Pica stayed with the Munduruku, he easily slipped into a numberless existence. He slept in a hammock. He went hunting and ate tapir, armadillo and wild boar. He told the time from the position of the sun. If it rained, he stayed in; if it was sunny, he went out. There was never any need to count.Still, I thought it odd that numbers larger than five did not crop up at all in Amazonian daily life. What if you ask a Munduruku with six children how many kids they have? "He will say, 'I don't know,'" Pica said. "It is impossible to express."
Anyway, he added, the issue was a cultural one. It was not the case that the Munduruku counted his first child, his second, third, fourth and fifth, and then scratched his head because he could go no further. For the Munduruku, the whole idea of counting children is ludicrous. Why would a Munduruku adult want to count his children? They are looked after by all the adults in the community, Pika said, and no one is counting who belongs to whom.The reason for researching the mathematical abilities of these people who count only on one hand is to discover the nature of our basic numerical intuitions. In one of his most fascinating experiments, Pica examined the Indians' spatial understanding of numbers. How did they visualise numbers when spread out on a line? In the modern world we do this all the time – on tape measures, rulers, graphs and houses along a street.Pica tested them using sets of dots on a screen. Each volunteer was presented with a figure of an unmarked line. To the left side of the line was one dot; to the right, 10 dots. Each volunteer was then shown random sets of between one and 10 dots. For each set, the subject had to point at where on the line he or she thought the number of dots should be located. Pica moved the cursor to this point and clicked. Through repeated clicks, he could see exactly how the Munduruku spaced numbers between one and 10. http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...los-numberland

[induffike]

skull elongation was common among Huns. they forced the shape of new born by tying a jig around the unformed skull, very similar to Mayans. its more likely that this concept traveled from Siberia to America than by any other route.

[reervieltnope]

Skull elongation was in fashion, mainly in the upper classes of some civilizations in the Americas. It was the cosmetic surgery of the time. The elites wanted to look different from the crowd.

---------- Post added 2010-06-27 at 09:14 ----------

An interesting article about it

Yes, it is interesting but I wonder how those Amazonians LOST the skills to count beyond five!!! Most tribal people worldwide were able to count to thousands, at least, with a few exceptions. So, more that the origin of counting, I bet what the anthropologist found was a group that forgot how to count....

Amazing.

[bebeacc]

Even children are the result of their environment, what intellectual stimulation they get, what they eat, what they learn and so on. Those environmental differencies are visible in an IQ test.
Also reaching puberty earlier or later is also dependant of environmental factors. For example Danish children are reaching puberty earlier and earlier. Maybe they (to use your logic) are regressing and becoming apes??

---------- Post added 2010-06-27 at 12:52 ----------



Not long ago, there were a lot of people up here in the nordic countries that could not count to seven, nor could they write or read. Today, nearly all people here can write and read and count to seven. And still the genetic makeup of the people is the same. So counting to seven, reading, writing and such things are skills that are learned, they are not genetically inherited.

Feral Child genie scored a 74 iq on the non verbal part.

http://www.audiblox2000.com/book7.htm

Feral child genie was likely the way she was because she had traits of autism which lead to her being isolated.


Which a 74 iq is higher than Jamaica & Haiti which score an iq of 72.


Children generally score a higher iq. Because they actually learn quicker generally.
Iq tests don't test knowledge so much as they test how quick you learn things.

Yes, the enviroment has some effect on iq.

Just in America enviroment is not enough to explain the vast difference in Iq between Ashkenazi jews & African Americans.

[bortycuz]

Skull elongation was in fashion, mainly in the upper classes of some civilizations in the Americas. It was the cosmetic surgery of the time. The elites wanted to look different from the crowd.

---------- Post added 2010-06-27 at 09:14 ----------



Yes, it is interesting but I wonder how those Amazonians LOST the skills to count beyond five!!! Most tribal people worldwide were able to count to thousands, at least, with a few exceptions. So, more that the origin of counting, I bet what the anthropologist found was a group that forgot how to count....

Amazing.

knowledge mostly stayed in the upper classes, among mags, shamans and such. when they were gone, no one was left to pass it on. and they stayed isolated.

[Obenuearema]

knowledge mostly stayed in the upper classes, among mags, shamans and such. when they were gone, no one was left to pass it on. and they stayed isolated.

True. Knowledge is esoteric. That happened among the Mayans, for example, where only the elite knew how to read and write. After the Maya decline, people continued speaking Maya but nobody could read the glyphs, up to the 1980s. The same happened with the Inca quipus, that today nobody knows how to read.

[mplawssix]

Just in America enviroment is not enough to explain the vast difference in Iq between Ashkenazi jews & African Americans.

As the Pinguin explained in an earlier post many jews grow up in a different educational culture than many African Americans.

[emingeRek]

As the Pinguin explained in an earlier post many jews grow up in a different educational culture than many African Americans.

Yes. It seems nobody else noticed that post, that I consider foundamental, so I'll repeat it:

Samples:

(1) Jewish kids in a traditional family learn to read pretty early, because theirs need to understand the Torah. They usually know at least a bit of a Semitic language, and they are functionally billinguals. Besides, they learn history from the Bible.
Even more, Jewish tradition has the Kabalah as an integral part of the culture. And Kabalah is a mystic numerology. So, do you wonder from where the love to numbers come from?
When Jews finally comfront the topics tought in the Western curricula they are already familiarized with history, linguistic, mathematics, traditions, psycology, etc. So no wonder they do well.

(2) Asians love mathematics, chess and abstract thinking. Solving puzzles and playing games like Chinese chess, Go or standard chess is part of theirs milenary traditions. They are also exposed to extremely complex languages like ideographic Mandarin, that requires a lot of effort to learn, even for locals.
At the end, when they are confront to western syllabus, things looks relatively easy.
If you add that to a military discipline to studies, you will see why Asians succeed where Westerners fail.

There are differences in IQ? Yes, there are, but there are more than a reason why they show.

[citalopram]

As the Pinguin explained in an earlier post many jews grow up in a different educational culture than many African Americans.

Culture reflects the people in that culture.

Smart people will promote a smart oriented culture.

[Lillie_Steins]

Culture reflects the people in that culture.

Smart people will promote a smart oriented culture.

It is actually the other way, culture affects mental abilities by promoting those abilities that are wanted or that fit into the cultural framework.