[orbidewa]

Instead of North Africa, would the Eurocentrics still be downplaying/disregarding Ancient Egypt as an Black civilization at all? For instance, what if Ancient Egypt had been in Central Africa?

[Grzqbmhy]

They still do this with African civilizations in the interior.

[Scukonahuy]

Ancient Egypt was a Caucasoid civilization. Get over it.

[paulaglober]

Ancient Egypt wasn't a black civilization in the sense that we think of black.. there was however influence from East Africa and further up the Nile. But Egypt was not in any way influenced by West Africa, so New World blacks have little to no connection to Egypt.

[Matajic]

Instead of North Africa, would the Eurocentrics still be downplaying/disregarding Ancient Egypt as an Black civilization at all? For instance, what if Ancient Egypt had been in Central Africa?

EuroCENTRISTS will always downgrade others, thats the essence of centrism Strange question, its flawed in its essence.

But the time that any 'centrist' had a monopoly on the academic world, is long gone.

---------- Post added 2011-12-30 at 03:57 ----------

They still do this with African civilizations in the interior.

Interior? Like central africa where the jungle is and only very primitive tribes have lived, and only since decolonization, volatile nation states have emerged? What civilization are you talking about then?

---------- Post added 2011-12-30 at 03:58 ----------

Ancient Egypt was a Caucasoid civilization. Get over it.

What is a 'Caucasoid'?

[Buincchotourbss]

Ancient Egypt wasn't a black civilization in the sense that we think of black.. there was however influence from East Africa and further up the Nile. But Egypt was not in any way influenced by West Africa, so New World blacks have little to no connection to Egypt.

I am Afram and I do not see Ancient Egypt as my ancestors...

[Alexeric]

EuroCENTRISTS will always downgrade others, thats the essence of centrism Strange question, its flawed in its essence.

But the time that any 'centrist' had a monopoly on the academic world, is long gone.

---------- Post added 2011-12-30 at 03:57 ----------



Interior? Like central africa where the jungle is and only very primitive tribes have lived, and only since decolonization, volatile nation states have emerged? What civilization are you talking about then?

---------- Post added 2011-12-30 at 03:58 ----------



What is a 'Caucasoid'?

Ignorance is bliss! She is talking about the civilizations such as the great Zimbabwe, which eurocentrist interpreted to be king solomon mines, hence there structures were non african,and the ancient artwork of the Benin and Yoruba culture was thought again by Eurocentrist to had been imported from the ancient Phoenicans, and this stupid litany went on and on over the years, until their silly theories had finally been debunked.

and lets not even mention the civilization of the sahel region, and eurocentrist interpretations

http://www.garycook.co.uk/Africa/Zim...Photo47233.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...G.Zimbabwe.JPG

http://mytraveling.net/zimbabwe/foto/zwe2511.jpg
http://img1.photographersdirect.com/.../pd1208140.jpg

Great Zimbabwe once thought to be king solomon mines therefore non African

http://www.afro-eastsafaris.com/images/gediruins.jpg

Same as the Gedi ruins in kenya

[UBJ3kvP1]

Ancient Egypt was a Caucasoid civilization. Get over it.

Nope it wasn't. It was 100% African and mostly Black.

---------- Post added 2011-12-29 at 22:19 ----------

Ancient Egypt wasn't a black civilization in the sense that we think of black.. there was however influence from East Africa and further up the Nile. But Egypt was not in any way influenced by West Africa, so New World blacks have little to no connection to Egypt.

An ancient Greece has nearly nothing to o with Northern-Western Europe.

I find it hilarious how people like you always turn to West Africa as if it alone represents the epitome of "Black Africaness." Black Africans are not only locates in West Africa.

Actually, MANY Wet African group descend from the Nile Valley/Egypt.

[Dreqsqse]

Ignorance is bliss! She is talking about the civilizations such as the great Zimbabwe, which eurocentrist interpreted to be king solomon mines, hence there structures were non african,and the ancient artwork of the Benin and Yoruba culture was thought again by Eurocentrist to had been imported from the ancient Phoenicans, and this stupid litany went on and on over the years, until their silly theories had finally been debunked.

and lets not even mention the civilization of the sahel region, and eurocentrist interpretations

http://www.garycook.co.uk/Africa/Zim...Photo47233.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...G.Zimbabwe.JPG

http://mytraveling.net/zimbabwe/foto/zwe2511.jpg
http://img1.photographersdirect.com/.../pd1208140.jpg

Great Zimbabwe once thought to be king solomon mines therefore non African

http://www.afro-eastsafaris.com/images/gediruins.jpg

Same as the Gedi ruins in kenya

Omg.. she is talking about INTERIOR Africa, by which it is generally meant central Africa. I just wondered if she meant that too.

I know of Zimbabwe (not interior), and of Yoruba, Kenya, Mali etc.. (not interior), and I am very well aware about the outrageous eurocentrism in historiography.

---------- Post added 2011-12-30 at 04:41 ----------

Nope it wasn't. It was 100% African and mostly Black.

---------- Post added 2011-12-29 at 22:19 ----------



An ancient Greece has nearly nothing to o with Northern-Western Europe.

I find it hilarious how people like you always turn to West Africa as if it alone represents the epitome of "Black Africaness." Black Africans are not only locates in West Africa.

Actually, MANY Wet African group descend from the Nile Valley/Egypt.

What is 'black'?

[cindygirl]

I find it hilarious how people like you always turn to West Africa as if it alone represents the epitome of "Black Africaness." Black Africans are not only locates in West Africa.

Actually, MANY Wet African group descend from the Nile Valley/Egypt.

I am saying that New World blacks, descended from West-Central Africans have much less to do with Egypt than say, Sudanese, Ethiopians etc do.

Which West African groups descend from Egypt? I know there used to be beliefs that the Fulani did.

[Accor$314]

Nope it wasn't. It was 100% African and mostly Black.

---------- Post added 2011-12-29 at 22:19 ----------



An ancient Greece has nearly nothing to o with Northern-Western Europe.

I find it hilarious how people like you always turn to West Africa as if it alone represents the epitome of "Black Africaness." Black Africans are not only locates in West Africa.

Actually, MANY Wet African group descend from the Nile Valley/Egypt.

I know it is hilarious!

[pupyississido]

Nope it wasn't. It was 100% African and mostly Black.

I thought black was politically incorrect now lol. Egypt is located in Africa, therefore it was African civilization but it was not negroid. Africa has always been a racially diverse continent. African â‰* negroid.

[gyjsdtuwr]

I thought black was politically incorrect now lol. Egypt is located in Africa, therefore it was African civilization but it was not negroid. Africa has always been a racially diverse continent. African â‰* negroid.

They had more genetic similarities with BLACK Africans

---------- Post added 2011-12-29 at 23:36 ----------

I am saying that New World blacks, descended from West-Central Africans have much less to do with Egypt than say, Sudanese, Ethiopians etc do.

Which West African groups descend from Egypt? I know there used to be beliefs that the Fulani did.

I just don't see a reason why you have to bring up "West African" in the first place especially when the OP did not mention them in particular. I notice this all the time. WHY is this a knee jerk reaction when speaking about Ancient Egypt?

[inmeirulez]

The egyptian civilization is a product of egyptians, and the credit is due to them and no one else.
Eurocentrists AND afrocentrists need to both shut up about it. If you aren't egyptian then don't try to claim it as your own. It's like me being irish (let alone an american with no recent ties to europe) trying to claim something that the italians did. Im not italian so it makes no sense for me to for instance claim that my people are responsible for the roman empire. They aren't.

Egypt is an african civilization, there is no dispute about this, because last i checked it is situated in africa. But unless you are an EGYPTIAN or have ancestral ties there, you have nothing to claim.

[bredkumanfirst]

The egyptian civilization is a product of egyptians, and the credit is due to them and no one else.
Eurocentrists AND afrocentrists need to both shut up about it. If you aren't egyptian then don't try to claim it as your own. It's like me being irish (let alone an american with no recent ties to europe) trying to claim something that the italians did. Im not italian so it makes no sense for me to for instance claim that my people are responsible for the roman empire. They aren't.

Egypt is an african civilization, there is no dispute about this, because last i checked it is situated in africa. But unless you are an EGYPTIAN or have ancestral ties there, you have nothing to claim.

There is a difference between claiming them as your ancestors and righting the wrongs of racist, biased history writing.

[TXmjLW9b]

im picking the first ten pictures of egyptians that come up on google. no cherry picking.



http://karenswhimsy.com/public-domai...n-people-4.jpg

http://www.instablogsimages.com/imag...A7jU_19672.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...erhood-007.jpg

http://www.novinite.com/media/images...big_125183.jpg

http://humanexperience.stanford.edu/..._pg114_400.jpg

http://pragmaticdemocrat.files.wordp...02-ss_full.jpg

http://www.pressnewscafe.com/wp-cont...e1-300x280.jpg

http://cloud.frontpagemag.com/wp-con...e-in-Cairo.gif

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bJGfOyR2V7...10129-1358.jpg

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/def...EgyptNew38.jpg

i tried to get as best pics as i could, and ones with numerous people in them. based on these photos i'd venture to say that egypt is a mixture of both arab/middle eastern and black african. i can only assume that this is what the population was like in its heyday. i don't think that ancient egypt was solely either a black civilization or a middle eastern one. it was likely a product of both. unless someone has hard evidence to prove otherwise.. id like to hear it if they do.

[kimaddison]

im picking the first ten pictures of egyptians that come up on google. no cherry picking.

I see both Horn African and Arabian type influences in them.

[E4qC1qQ5]

yes, they seem to lean more towards arabid as a people it would seem but i can see some who look admixed, if not predominantly black. not to say there are not fully black egyptians though.

im basing that assumption solely on these pictures, i don't have any facts or statistics to back it up or any first hand experience with them.

[mincarlie.frymyer]

yes, they seem to lean more towards arabid as a people it would seem but i can see some who look admixed, if not predominantly black. not to say there are not fully black egyptians though.

Most of them look to me like if an Ethiopian and a Saudi had a child.

[abubycera]

I made a statement about this some time ago, however it was inreference whether the people of Punt or aka somalia gave birth to ancient nile valley civilization, however i don't call it ancient egypt anymore, the more appropriate term is nile valley civilization, similar to Greco Roman or Mesopotamian civilizations , which consist of today Egypt and Northern Sudan today, everything else is negligible due to the fact both cultures share similar monuments and worshiped the same nile valley gods in the past. Here is what i wrote a month ago.


I am not sure about the old kingdom, but the new kingdom, and middle kingdom were definitely the ancestors of southern egyptians and northern sudanese today, which is obvious. Due to the similarity of pyramids in elkurru, nuri, meroe and new kingdom pyramids of deir el medina
Pyramids of deir el medina
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient...llery_08.shtml

Pyramids of meroe northern sudan
http://www.johnmors.com/pyramid_meroe.html
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=meroe...8&tx=127&ty=72

Nuri pyramds builted on somewhat larger scale than others.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vithass...57594264778397, and the temple in both Luxor(Egypt) and Soleb(northern sudan) today. Infact the very ruined temple of Queen Tiyehttp://nubie-international.fr/accueil.php?a=page164020&lang=en is still in Northern Sudan Today.The ruined temple of amun in jebal barkal(northern sudan) was where the pharaohs were coronated, as ruler in both lands. Even the pharaohs of the 25th dynasty claimed that their ancestors were the new kingdom pharaohs.

Excerpt from the website studing the ruins of the jebal barkal temple complex.

By the eighth century BCE a family of local Nubian chiefs restored the Jebel Barkal Amun cult and sanctuary and established Napata as the center of an independent kingdom of Kush. Reviving and promoting the New Kingdom royal myths, rituals and propaganda, which were apparently still widely remembered, they claimed Amun of Jebel Barkal as their divine father; they claimed the New Kingdom pharaohs as their “ancestors;� and they declared themselves heirs of the revived kingship of Upper Egypt and Kush, which had not existed since the New Kingdom. By about 750 BCE, with the support of the Amun priesthood in Thebes, the new kings of Napata assumed the “Upper Egyptian� throne in a bloodless coup through the combined oracular authority of Amun of Jebel Barkal and Amun of Karnak (fig. 5). By 712 BCE they had conquered and reunited all of Egypt so that their rule was now counted as Egypt’s 25th Dynasty. Five Napatan kings then ruled Egypt and Kush until about 661 BCE, when repeated invasions of Egypt by Assyria finally forced the retreat of the ruling family from Egypt back to Napata and their Sudanese homeland.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hypermo...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hypermo...n/photostream/
inscription of the nile valley myth of the "book of the dead" at the tomb of el kurru in northern sudan
Here is the website.http://www.jebelbarkal.org/

On the sudanese website we don't relegate it into categories of ancient egypt or ancient nubia anymore, we just call it nile valley civilization. Similar to what people call mespotamian civilization, Greco-Roman civilization, Indus valley civilization and MesoAmerican civilization etc.

Lastly the pharaoh Amenhemet of the 12th dynasty according to the prophecy of neferti was of taseti origin which is another so called nubian group that lived in the first nome of upper egypt or modern day Aswan, yet according to some scholars that same prophecy was written by the old kingdom pharaohs. however there is some disagree whether this prophecy was written by the old kingdom or not.

Then a king will come from the South,
Ameny, the justified, by name
Son of a woman of Ta-Seti, child of Upper Egypt.
He will take the white crown,
He will wear the red crown;
He will join the Two Mighty Ones..
Rejoice, O people of his time,
The son of man will make his name for all eternity! ..
Asiatics will fall to his sword,
Libyans will fall to his flame,
Rebels to his wrath, traitors to his might,
As the serpent on his brow subdues the rebels for him.
One will build the Walls-of-the-Ruler
To bar Asiatics from entering Egypt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_Neferti

When i look at how the new kingdom and the middle kingdom depicted themselves it just scream the faces of southern egypt and northern sudanese people today, again it is quite obvious who these people were, and you could say the old kingdom as well.

Northern Sudanese reporter that works for the BBC Zeinab Badawi
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_khnBA58ed2...0/PDVD_066.JPG
Mall afrah in khartoum sudan at the food court.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...13rb1.jpg/sr=1

How the new kingdom elite depicted themselves or the tomb of nakht
http://www.kemetnu.com/Nakht%20Couple.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hL4UsejIVK...+of+Nakht5.jpg

Both regions have pyramids, and temples, worshipped the same old time pharaonic gods, basically have similar culture, which is somewhat practiced till this day especially among north sudanese and a good example of this unforunately is female circumcision, but in Northern Sudan and Egypt it is called pharaonic circumcision Here is a youtube video from northern sudan endorsing this practice, eventhough it is in arabic notice the imagery which give the viewer the suggestion that this practice goes back to pharaonic times. Unforunately this video was endorsing female circumcision or what is locally called pharaonic circimcision back in the early ninties, however the opinions about female circumcision has change a great deal by the educated younger generation, yet it is still practiced by some people till this day.

The imaginery is interesting which basically without understanding arabic tell the non arabic speaker the origin of the practice. Again i am not endorsing pharaonic circumcision, which is unforunately practices in many African societies mainly Egypt, Northern Sudan, horn of african, cushites in kenya, and muslims societies in west africa mainly in the sahel region

Khartoum national museum
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alashotokan/3363849698/
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=khar...ational+museum


---------- Post added 2011-12-29 at 23:07 ----------

In summation, the people in both today egypt and northern sudan and to a certain degree the nilotes further south ancestors contributed to the civilization of the nile valley, again everyone else is negligible until further research.