[Everwondopedo]

It's pretty obvious that Europe is going through a crisis in a lot of ways, and one of those ways is the declining fertility rate. The birthrates of pretty much every European country is way below 2.1 which is the replacement rate. That means that if things continue the way they are, Europe eventually won't be able sustain it's native population. There are definitely a lot of factors that are contributing to this but I think it makes a lot more sense to look for a solution than point fingers or whatever because one thing is clear, unless they want their continent to be youth-less and full of older people in a few decades, Europeans need to have more children and they need to start having them soon.

These figures are from 1960-2009. Ireland and Iceland are the only European countries with a birthrate over 2 children per woman and most of the other countries have awful fertility rates. It's been a trend for a while.




So, what's a good solution? I think one of the most obvious fixes would be financial aid and pensions for each baby a couple has, there are a lot of people who might think it's not a good idea to have more kids because of their economic situation and these are tough times financially. If that burden is lessened a little, they might start having more children. But what else is there?

[Britfunclubs]

Have more sex and use less contraception.

/thread.

[MadMark]

Have more sex and use less contraception.

/thread.

That's way too simplistic, looking for actual solutions.

[carreraboyracer]

So, what's a good solution? I think one of the most obvious fixes would be pensions and financial aid for each baby a couple has, there are a lot of people who might think it's not a good idea to have more kids because of their economic situation and these are tough times financially. If that burden is lessened a little, they might start having more children. But what else is there?

A serious cultural change has to happen across the Western world for the birth rates to increase. In my area it has more to do with the fact that white Americans are more reluctant to accept the personal responsibilities associated with child rearing.

If you have children, you can't do what you want anymore, and a lot of white people I know don't like that idea, it seems. I also hear the typical response from women of "pregnancy will ruin my body" and men of "I don't think I can give my child as good of a life as I was given due to the economy, so I'm just not going to have any".

In short, I don't know what we can do, but I don't think government subsidies are the answer.

[pataagusata]

That's way too simplistic, looking for actual solutions.

Okay, then decriminalise rape.

[Aniplinipsync]

Interesting is that Iceland is quite 'libertine' while Ireland is 'ethically conservative'. It doesn't appear to have to do with this.

[erroxiainsona]

That's way too simplistic, looking for actual solutions.

something tells me that white Americans who are not religious have the same problem.

[truportodfa]

Interesting is that Iceland is quite 'libertine' while Ireland is 'ethically conservative'. It doesn't appear to have to do with this.

yup, that's true. I'd really expected the Catholic countries to have way higher birth rates but Italy and Spain have very low rates.

[shanice]

Interesting is that Iceland is quite 'libertine' while Ireland is 'ethically conservative'. It doesn't appear to have to do with this.

Ireland and Iceland both went through serious economic hardship around 2009 and it did not affect their birthrates. I don't think the economy can be the sole reason birthrates are falling either.

[jacknates]

On the one hand... Everytime, less and less labour will be necessary as technology will replace it. Robots make mechanical tasks faster and cheaper than the cheaper worker. So everytime will be more difficult to get income. You cannot have babies without a regular income. I'm the first one who would like to have a child, but I cannot afford it. However, immigrants carry on and on having babies. I don't know how they manage to do it.

On the another one, I think non-Europeans should cut down on having seven or eight children by family. How? Firstly, not giving them a fucking euro (a "present" from the welfare state). I know this could bring social trouble, but then we should expell the one who breaks the law. Secondly, making our borders as safe as Australia's.

[pKgGpUlF]

something tells me that white Americans who are not religious have the same problem.

Iceland isn't quite religious. Their PM is even an open lesbian. The country allows gay marriage, has legal abortion for rape, maternal life, health, etc... (which is stricter than in most of Europe, but less strict than in Ireland). I mention these factors because they might inhibit fertility of course. At least they are vaguely religious and not in the classical sense.

[cheapphenonline]

Have more sex and use less contraception.

/thread.

And who will pay the expenses of the baby? Jesus Christ arriving from Heaven? Let's think things before writing...

---------- Post added 2012-06-24 at 18:46 ----------

yup, that's true. I'd really expected the Catholic countries to have way higher birth rates but Italy and Spain have very low rates.

At least in Catalonia, people didn't give a fuck about Catholicism or another kind of religion. The response to our low birthrate is simple: everytime life is hardest.

[Wckcvhsg]

yup, that's true. I'd really expected the Catholic countries to have way higher birth rates but Italy and Spain have very low rates.

this have I known for ages.

Interesting that muslim Turkey has only 2. I guess it would be less if Kurds were excluded.

I think the causes are individualism, women's obsession of having fun and look good, and - to a less degree - the economic situation in the poorer parts of Europe. Ofcourse the poor holes in the third world have high birthrates

In Asia low birthrate usually correlate with richer countries. But it can ofcourse reach the other extreme - like it has done in the west, we are "too" western and modern.

WG, you know when I said to you that "Western thing" is not always something admirable or great?

[icyfreshy]

In europe a lot of women are masculinized feminist psychos..... is doubtful many want to sacrifice their jobs, money, independence in pro of raising a bunch of kids at home while hubby works.

[Theariwinna]

WG, you know when I said to you that "Western thing" is not always something admirable or great?

lol yup, but I've also said the same thing. But I don't think that low birthrates are a mainly western problem, Eastern Europe's birth rates are even lower than the western part (look at Russia). Cuba also has very low birth rates compared to other Latin American countries so I think Communism or post-Communism is definitely a factor.

[9rCR9hWL]

And who will pay the expenses of the baby? Jesus Christ arriving from Heaven? Let's think things before writing...

Which is better, having a reduction in your standard of living and keeping your ethnicity alive or keeping your standard of living and giving your country and ethnicity away?

If your population is decreasing and you can't increase productivity to offset the decline in population, activity in your economy starts to contract and that makes it hard for an indebted nation to pay its obligations. Why do you think Western governments are welcoming immigrants with open arms? Because the natives want to retire and they don't want to have any children to replace them in the workforce, so immigration is the only real solution.

Unless you want to try the Japanese way of replacing people with machines, which has yet to be tested in human history and is quite dangerous, imo.

[aparneioninny]

In europe a lot of women are masculinized feminist psychos..... is doubtful many want to sacrifice their jobs, money, independence in pro of raising a bunch of kids at home while hubby works.

Things are the opposite you say: in Spanish-speaker America, women are irresponsible and have the 17th century mentality in their brains. You marry the first guy you meet, when you are still at High School, and gave birth a child every year... until you have eight or nine of them and are wondering why you are poor...

I know this history.

[Info-phone]

And we can also finally - in case there are any ignorant assholes here who believe whatever toothfairy says - debunk the idea that "Europe needs immigration for higher birthrates", since when we look at the table in WG's initial post, we see that the countries who have many immigrants nowadays had higher birthrates decades ago when the country was more homogenous and the immigration of non-europeans in some of those countries had barely started.

[Buildityrit]

Economies have nothing to do with birthrates…

Poor nations often have more children than rich nations. So the better question to ask is: why do richer Western European nations have children less than "poorer" Eastern European nations?

Look at biology, certain people genetically seem to produce more children than others (r/K-selection). Perhaps these types of promiscuous people are inhibited in richer nations?? What is another possibility?

[bensabath]

Things are the opposite you say: in Spanish-speaker America, women are irresponsible and have the 17th century mentality in their brains. You marry the first guy you meet, when you are still at High School, and gave birth a child every year... until you have eight or nine of them and are wondering why you are poor...

I know this history.

funny, ALL latin american countries have rather low birth rates and the average family has one or two kids....

though birth rates in europe are not low, they're NEGATIVE IN THE PITS OF HELL LOW.... most people I know in their 30's are single with no children, that's how bad it is.

get outta of spain.... it'll do you good, you're too backwards and provincial, I doubt you;re ever been on a plane based on the ridiculous banana republic way you often talk about other countries.

you remind me of my fellow americans from places like Hope Arkansas.... backwards, narrow minded, scared and ignorant of anything that;s different..... I mean for God's sake, you consider that little autonosmous region of yours a nation, that shows you how provincial you are.